Awesome Thread., 2ZZ/1ZZ <-> E153? Maybe... Options

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

I found this discussion on NewCelica.org about trying to shoehorn the E153 transmission onto the later ZZ series engines by Toyota via an adaptor kit...

http://www.newcelica.org/forums/showthread.php?t=213963

Thought that it was really interesting....not only for the turbo 2ZZGE guys on that forum that desire a more rugged gearbox option, but somebody else mentioned that it would allow cars like the SW20 MR2, Corolla, STxxx and ATxxx Celicas, Currens, Camrys, Solara, you name it to use the 2ZZ motor with ease in those chassis. Also, in theory you could use such a kit in a reverse role and use the components from the kit that allow the E153 to mount up to the 2ZZGE block on a Lotus Elise, and thus allowing for the use of S-series Toyota motors in a Lotus Elise by changing one mount only.

Can you say, 3SGTE powered Elise? BEAMS powered Elise even?? How about a 2ZZ powered ST202/204, ATxxx? Interesting stuff.

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

And something else too.....This would make for a wicked Celica project because you could use the shorter gears of an S54 for an N/A 2ZZGE swap by using the adaptor plate for the 2ZZGE<->E153 since they would both bolt up using the plate, keeping the motor in lift using shorter gears. Use an Apexi PowerFC to manage toe motor, and say goodbye to having to do a wiring harness and you've got yourself a pretty straightfoward and available N/A motor swap worth investing your time in.

[x_itchy_b_x]

thats my dream car. a high hp 3sgte in a tiny Elise. pwnage

[j0e_p3t]

so does this mean the 2zzge is now a slightly more feasible swap?

[Coomer]

Interesting...I never knew that the seventh gens used C-series transmissions.

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

I know, me either. I wonder if that would allow the abiity to use the 6spd C52 on other A series motors??? Or, if that would allow easier mounting of the 2ZZGE by way of another C series trans thats used in our Celicas or Corollas, etc?

[lagos]

one other possible option is to try to swap the bell housing of the 2 transmissions, so that you end up with the right bolt pattern for the motor. i think tweak did this on that 2zz corolla swap he did before.

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

Really? I wouldn't have thought that he would have to do that since he used both the 2ZZ and 6spd C52 trans that are used in the donor platform. Custom mounts maybe, but i don't know about having to change bellhousings. I wonder what he had to do with axles though....i'm sure its written up someplace that would eliminate any guessing.

I'm fascinated by seeing whats possible by using all OEM Toyota stuff, its pretty amazing how similar alot of it really is.

[j0e_p3t]

a 6-speed turbo/supercharged 6gc would be pretty sweet. and it would be street legal in cali.

[hitcachi]

Actually this is really interesting. Nice find! If anybody has any follow up, please post. Also, having a 6 speed isnt as practical as most would be led to believe. Most of the time its just fun to say you have 6 gears. But in reality, you dont want 6 speeds for auto xing, drag racing, or any other kind of auto sport for that matter because of the increased amount of shifting required. But yes, I do love the 2zz, and sh*t, if i was going to do the swap, you're damn right i would swap in the 6 speed C50!

This post has been edited by hitcachi: Nov 14, 2006 - 10:22 AM

[XS4lv1Truch0x]

doode what is this first a camry motor and now this

im tellin you guys its the dawn of a new era lmao

i see it already, 2zzge powered celica's and 6spd 3sgtes lmao

that will be the day...

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

Sorry guys, I mistakenly called the GTS 6-speed trans the C52, its actually a C60. Thought I would clarify just to avoid the spread of false info.

I just read over Doc's Corolla 2ZZGE swap on his site for the hell of it, just to see what was done. We would probably still need custom mounts, modified axles of some type, and lets not forget that the exhaust manifold faces the back of the car so it might require a custom job there too. With the E153 possibility you'd solve most of the mount issues with ST205 hardware and go from there.

I'm not sure that I'd ever try it, but it never hurts to start a think-tank about the possibilities, however if this adaptor was ever made for the transmission it would make it hard to ignore the potential and fun it could offer.

[sinner96ST]

nice find, but i'm not a huge fan of the 2zz's.

in terms of price/power ratio, a 3s will still be the leader of the pack. a 2zz rev's really high, sounds great, but it really reacts poorly to mods, in comparison to other motors in the same class.

by the time you got done spending all the cash on a full blown 2zz swap in a 6th gen, not to mention screwing with the wiring and everything else, you could've tossed in a 3s with upgrades, and be making lots more power for your dollar.

besides, a turbo'd 5s or 7a will make the same if not more than a boosted 2zz, and will be infinitely less complicated & less expensive. those turbo kits they sell aren't cheap. plus, as i understand it, the newer GT-S's use a drive by wire system, which complicates things even more.

it really is a shame, because the 2zz should be so much more than it is. you really need deep, deep pockets to get a lot out of that motor.

[Kwanza26]

Umm... I haven't looked at the postings at newcelica.org... but this is NOT new news and you're a bit over-excited. To start... no you cannot use any sort of adaptor plate without modifying the exsisting bellhousing or input shaft. Why? The input shaft is a certain length and the idea of an adaptor plate just defeats that. The ONLY real way to bolt an e153 to a 2zz is to machine a CUSTOM bellhousing. The ZZ series engines, although they do use C series trannies, do not share the same bellhousings as the older C series trannies in the celicas and corollas. Hell... even the current 1nzfe still uses a C series tranny. Their gearsets are the same however. The 7gc 6 speed is basically the same as the 20V blacktop 6 speed with slightly different bellhousings.

Basically put... gearsets do NOT interchange between S series trannies and E series trannies... Gearsets do interchange between the different C series trannies, and you cannot randomly swap trannies with adaptor plates... unless of course these 'adaptor plates' are custom bellhousings. That's not even considering the mounting, axles, shift cables, or anything like that.

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

Sorry I'm too excited and not in-the-know....

I have no clue if they were talking about a modified E153 bellhousing or not, they might not either. Obviously thats what would probably allow the two to mate up because you couldn't just slap on a plate and call it a day of course.....the input shaft would be moved out a good deal if it were just a shunk of metal added on and would make the whole thing a catastrophe if you were to rely on a plate. By the word "plate" I was imagining something that would requre such lengths as removing the bellhousing, installing the new setup thats been machined to bolt to the 2ZZ block.

Again, this is nothing set in stone, and its not a debate over whether or not the 2ZZGE is the best or not, or whether its entirely practical. I was just openly discussing the possibilities that could be made using such a setup if it were made and starting a thinktank over the issue. I don't think thats getting too excited, just a practical discussion.

[Kwanza26]

Sorry I'm too excited and not in-the-know....

I have no clue if they were talking about a modified E153 bellhousing or not, they might not either. Obviously thats what would probably allow the two to mate up because you couldn't just slap on a plate and call it a day of course.....the input shaft would be moved out a good deal if it were just a shunk of metal added on and would make the whole thing a catastrophe if you were to rely on a plate. By the word "plate" I was imagining something that would requre such lengths as removing the bellhousing, installing the new setup thats been machined to bolt to the 2ZZ block.

Again, this is nothing set in stone, and its not a debate over whether or not the 2ZZGE is the best or not, or whether its entirely practical. I was just openly discussing the possibilities that could be made using such a setup if it were made and starting a thinktank over the issue. I don't think thats getting too excited, just a practical discussion.

The 2ZZ is an excellent performance motor, the n/a factor alone makes it worthwhile... however do understand it's a purpose built n/a motor. Considering this is newcelica.org we're talking about... i'm fairly sure they're talking about some bolt-on deal. Unfortunately... it's quite a bit more complicated than that and only a very few highly boosted guys can take advantage of it. Gearing-wise... the 2ZZ's performance can hurt severly with taller ratios such as the e153 because its power is located almost exclusively beyond 6000 rpms.