ANYONE CHANGED OUT A 7AFE W/A USED ONE?, Blew an engine; thinking abt buying a Jap "used" one Options

[Rangemaster]

Son called one day, said he's stuck on the freeway. It seems he has a loud knocking sound coming from the engine.

After doing a leakdown check (#3 and #4 cylinders looks suspicious) we pulled the heads. Shop said valves and the top end were fine; head gasket was not blown either. Engines has 125K miles on it.

Upon cycling the pistons to TDC it seems we can push #4 DOWN about .020" at the start of the down stroke... this indicates piston pin or rod bearing problems.

Soooo... thinking 'bout removing the rest of the engine and installing one of the "used, inspected/tested" Japanese pulls out of Seattle that they ship over. They have a 1 year unlimited milage warranty and you use your existing manifolds/engine-mounted accessories. I plan on replacing the timing belt, water pump and thermostat in the "new" engine when I install it.

QUESTION - has anyone done a swap with one of the "used" engines? I'm pulling a 7AFE and replacing it with a 7AFE... don't want to go modding right now.

Can this engine be pulled OUT THE TOP? I've dropped the tranny before to do a clutch and hate working under the thing in the pit; it looks like if I finish pulling the accessories off and yank the water pump I might just have enuff room to unbolt the engine and slide it to the left to get the transmission input shaft out of the motor.

Any tips from someone who has been down this goat trail will be appreciated...

[56willysnut]

My guess is that there is not that much technical knowledge on this forum, I'm not getting any posts on my thread also. I'm getting ready to travel that same trail soon. I just question whether the quality of the motor will be good or not, I've checked into several remanufactered engines on line and will probably go with one of those. Try JER engines on google. I got a quote of $1469 for a long block, guaranty of 3 yrs unlimited miles. Check them out. They are in Kentucky. good luck let us what you decide and how it turns out.

This post has been edited by 56willysnut: Dec 1, 2006 - 8:17 AM

[Rangemaster]

My guess is that there is not that much technical knowledge on this forum, I'm not getting any posts on my thread also. I'm getting ready to travel that same trail soon. I just question whether the quality of the motor will be good or not, I've checked into several remanufactered engines on line and will probably go with one of those. Try JER engines on google. I got a quote of $1469 for a long block, guaranty of 3 yrs unlimited miles. Check them out. They are in Kentucky. good luck let us what you decide and how it turns out.

I looked at that - shipping to Oregon is a killer; there is also a place in the Seattle area that does rebuilds for $1695, but they rebuild YOUR long block and you have to wait at least 2-3 weeks.

I bought a used Japanese "pull" for $750 and have it on the engine stand now - they didn't have any 7AFEs so I'm retrofitting a 4AFE and mounting the accessories on it today and replacing the timing belt, front crank seal, rear main seal, water pump and thermostat. My existing intake manifold (injectors are on the manifold) and exhaust manifold will bolt right up to the block. The $750 includes a $100 core charge for the old engine. I haven't decided whether to bag that and keep the core to rebuild the 7AFE - that depends on how bad it's thrashed in the bottom end.

The replacement 4AFE (yes, I know it's only a 1.6L) was really clean, had an excellent compression test (I watched them do a final leak-down test), and came with a one year, unlimited-milage warranty. All I have to do is an initial oil change after 200 miles or 5 days, then change the oil every 2K.

I'll keep this thread open and maybe throw in some pics of the process.

[Kwanza26]

My guess is that there is not that much technical knowledge on this forum, I'm not getting any posts on my thread also. I'm getting ready to travel that same trail soon. I just question whether the quality of the motor will be good or not, I've checked into several remanufactered engines on line and will probably go with one of those. Try JER engines on google. I got a quote of $1469 for a long block, guaranty of 3 yrs unlimited miles. Check them out. They are in Kentucky. good luck let us what you decide and how it turns out.

Not so much a lack of technical knowledge... but a question about common sense. For you... if your engine is burning oil... there's only so many causes of it. What more do you want? You've already answered your own question. There is no 'easy fix' sort of deal. Also... 1400-1500 for a 'remanufactured engine' better mean top to bottom rebuild. 7AFE's only run about 400-500 used... 5SFE a few hundred more.

To answer this question... if the used engine has a warranty... what's the worry? An engine is an engine. Assuming the company you buy from is a reputable company... then assume the engine is good. They usually go through pretty good inspections before they are sold with a warranty. The engine can be pulled from the top... in fact... it's the preffered method unless you have a lift.

[Rangemaster]

Did the swap...

Unfortunately a 7AFE wasn't available, so I opted for the cheaper (and readily available ) 4AFE.
Yes , I know it's a step down in displacement, but I have to get this project rolling and I don't have the bucks for a rebuilt engine... besides, nobody in the Pacific Northwest even HAD a rebuilt.

Found a place in Portland, OR and picked up a good 4AFE for not much $$ w/ a 1-year, unlimited-milage warranty.


Flywheel and clutch installed on "used" engine... beat-up oil filter will be replaced once it's installed:



Once you have it down this far you really have no reason not to install a new timing belt;
BTW, we also replaced the rear main oil seal and the crank seal (2-minute job with the engine sitting on the bench), and the valve cover seal and spark plug tube seals.



The hole left by the dearly departed 7AFE - we pulled the engine from the top.. if I had to do it over again I'd have pulled the hubs, half-shafts, then taken the engine and tranny out the top as a set:


Another view of the 4AFE w/ flywheel & clutch installed, ready to go in:


Back together:



A few notes:

Make sure you have a shop manual, a digital camera, and plenty of tools and time.

Don't transfer ANY of the old accessories or sensors off the engine you bought - use the ones that came off your engine. This includes the pulleys for the water pump, crank and idler arm.

If you are putting a 4AFE in you will need to modify two brackets - the power steering pump adjustment arm needs to have the top bolt hole (where it bolts to the head) hogged out a bit (lengthened or made into a slot in the UP direction); same for the intake manifold support bracket - we slotted the mounting hole on the bottom of the bracket where it bolts to the engine block.
Look at your distributor carefully - it only goes in one way. Matchmarks might help get you close, but use a timing light and follow the instruction on the sticker under your hood for the installation of the bypass jumper and timing. Most of these engines have a timing of 10 degrees BTDC; to make it easier to see w/a timing light strobe use a white paint pen to highlight your timing mark on the crank pulley.

IF YOU HAVE AIR TOOLS, USE THEM; THEY WILL SAVE YOUR A$$ (and a lot of time) AS LONG AS YOU DON'T OVER-TORQUE/STRIP SOMETHING.

Buy a torque wrench - learn how to use it.

The car was test-driven and the engine runs excellent - to mainain the warranty you have to change the oil the first 200 miles, then every 2K (not a big deal, 15-minute job). I can certify the oil changes myself and the shop where bought the motor will honor the warranty... interesting thing - they said UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES TAKE YOUR CAR TO JIFFY LUBE OR WALLY WORLD - this will void their warranty.

Hehe - guess they know what I've known for years... every rig I ever took to those places has oversized oil drain plugs from the flying monkies stripping them.

Make sure you follow the "ECU Relearn procedure" so the computer figures out the new engine.

When buying a timing belt, put matchmarks on the old belt and the pulleys; take the old belt in to the parts store and COUNT THE NUMBER OF TEETH as well as comparing length - it took the bozos at Schucks THREE TIMES to get it right, then I finally had to verify it myself. My partcular belt for the 4AFE was 117 teeth.

One follow-up note - if you elect to pull the engine from the top w/out pulling the transmission, disconnect the shifter cables (this car has a C52 5-spd). Three of the four engine mounts are hooked to the tranny, only one really attaches to the engine. By the time you get all the mounts off and wrangle the tranny around pulling and re-installing the engine w/out removing the tranny you can tweak one of your shifer cables. That's what happened to us... now I'm waiting on a replacement cable... the problem showd up a couple of days after the car was back on the road. I'm confident this will fix the problem (difficult to get into 2nd-4th-reverse) .

All in all I'm surprised how (relatively) easy it was...

This post has been edited by Rangemaster: Dec 18, 2006 - 11:25 AM

[94celicadude]

well it sounds like a positive and successfull swap, glad to hear of those little tips for pulling the engine w/out the tranny too. Great write up too.

[56willysnut]

Great pics and writeup!! Thanks for the info! What size is the 4afe and how much of a difference did it make driving?

[Rangemaster]

Great pics and writeup!! Thanks for the info! What size is the 4afe and how much of a difference did it make driving?

The 4AFE is 1.6 L; the 7AFE (original engine) was 1.8L.

My son actually says it appears to have more power & responsiveness; I suspected this as the old 7AFE had 125K+ of teenager-driven miles and the 4AFE has maybe 30-40K on it. It doesn't matter about the displacement - a tired engine is still a tired engine.

Thanks for your kind words on the writeup.

This post has been edited by Rangemaster: Dec 18, 2006 - 10:49 AM

[Bitter]

great job! i'm glad all went well. did you swap the PCM as well? as long as both engines are fedspec a 7afe pcm shouldnt have a problem running a 4afe i wouldnt think.

[Rangemaster]

great job! i'm glad all went well. did you swap the PCM as well? as long as both engines are fedspec a 7afe pcm shouldnt have a problem running a 4afe i wouldnt think.

I assume you mean the ECU (computer); the "ECU relearn procedure" did the trick, besides, the "new" engine did not come with an ECU.

[Blakout16]

I am this son he speaks of it was actually quite easy as far as difficulty goes for the swap. as he said if we could have redone it again, we would have most likely pulled the tranny along with it to make things easier.
Any noticeable diff between the 7afe and the 4afe? nope. i've driven it about 300 miles now and absolutely feels quite the same or even better.