3sgte engine in car. now wont start! Options

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

He is using the 5SFE's S54 transmission. Not a modified All-Trac trans thats converted to FWD.....I wouldn't reccomend that anyway, as the 5SFE trans is more than capable to handle a stock to moderately built 3SGTE and yes, it bolts right up. Doing a search will provide you with all the info you need regarding this matter.


Back on topic....Lets try to figure out why this motor won't run.

Art, didn't you mention something once about EFI and ignitor/spark being all controlled through the EFI fuse? I believe you said something about tapping into the fuse for 12v for the A/C and that you realized that the EFI is correlated with the WHOLE fuel delivery, spark, igniter process.....hence EFI, I suppose. Perhaps something was accidentally mis-wired with the EFI in the harness or perhaps it would be worth it to check out the fuse itself too....?

I would check the ignition system component by component from beginning to end to see where/if continuity is broken as well as ensuring every part functions. If not, its either a bad part or bad wiring....plain and simple.

[lagos]

yeah, its all tied into the fuse box. this was his original problem, but it should be fixed since he wired in the black/orange wire.

code 12 is:
12 - RPM No "G" signal to ECU for 2 sec after crank Starting related, check distributor, starter

make sure you plugged in the harness plug to the back of your distributor. then try the new cap and rotor and see where you stand.

[toyotacrazy]

Im still waiting for the button to arrive. I checked that the coil is recieving 12 volts and used the other wire on the connector as a ground. It had 12.7 volts. I still have no spark. So I checked the wires going from the igniter to the distributor for continuity. They are connected ok. So Im thinking its either the coil, coil wire to cap, igniter, or ecm. Im also pondering if it could be the distributor since thats directly related to the code and its not allowing the ecm to work for the ignition system. But if Im getting 12 volts to the coil, Doesnt this mean that the igniter and ecm are doing there job? Anyways I am going to replace the cap and button. I also bought a coil and igniter on ebay for $47.00 shipped. I guess Ill know more when I replace all this. Im so anxious to get this beast on the road! Ill keep you all posted. Thanks for the feedback!
-toyotacrazy

[toyotacrazy]

Ok guys, If anyone has any suggestions I would really appriciate it. My car still wont start. I dont know what to do other than try a new ecm. Ive been over most of the related harness for the distributor, ignition system, ecm b+, ecm ground, engine grounds, continuity and voltage drops on all the above except grounds of course. Im getting fuel, but got no spark what so ever. It cranks and I smell fuel. The only code is 12 for distributor Everything is plugged in and Ive checked pin fit too. I replaced the coil, distributor and ignitor with used parts. I also put a dist. cap and button on it. Still no change. Ive also checked the starter circuit and assured that I have B+ to the STA to the ecm when cranking.
Im wondering if the coil wires black/orange wire is the B+. The other coil wire is white/blue, now is that ground or should that wire be B+ during cranking and the ground be through the distributor and to the spark plugs????? This is the only thing I can figure that is maybe wrong. I hook the two coil wires to an ohm meter and turn on the key, It shows batt. voltage. So this means that the black/orange is B+ and the white/blue is ground. Maybe the white/blue wire should be B+ also to supply the coil. I donno anymore. Im just extremely frustrated!!!!
Any help would be greatly appriciated. Thanks in advance guys!!!

[lagos]

Im wondering if the coil wires black/orange wire is the B+. The other coil wire is white/blue, now is that ground or should that wire be B+ during cranking

the black/orange wire is B+. the white/blue wire is also B+, but it sends the voltage FROM the coil, to the igniter. if you unwrap your harness, youll see that the white/blue wire just goes from the coil right to the igniter.

when you test the coil plug, you should get 12v from the black/orange wire, and nothing from the white/blue when the plug is disconnected.

then plug the coil back in, and start testing the igniter plug. you should have 12v at the white/blue that came from the coil. post what voltages you get from each of the igniter wires (with the coil plugged in and the key in the ON position, but NOT cranking).

This post has been edited by lagos: Dec 26, 2006 - 2:35 AM

[toyotacrazy]

I got 12v at the black/orange wire on the coil with the 2 pin connector disconnected. I have nothing from the white/blue. When I connect the 2 pin coil connector, and unplug the igniter I have

black=nothing
black/yellow=5v
white=nothing
black/orange=12v
white/light blue=12v

This is with the key on and ecm connected. But the distributor and some various connectors not connected. I did manage to find a ecm ohm chart. So tomorrow Ill take the ecm to work and check it. Thanks for the input!

[Dr_Tweak]

Sorry I didn't get back to you on this sooner. What is the part number on your ECU, and which harness do you have, the one matching the '91 ECU pinout or the one matching the '92 ECU pinout?

-Doc

[toyotacrazy]

Sorry I didn't get back to you on this sooner. What is the part number on your ECU, and which harness do you have, the one matching the '91 ECU pinout or the one matching the '92 ECU pinout?

-Doc

Hey man,
The part number on the ecu for the 3sgte is 89661-2B280. It came together from japan with the complete uncut harness. Ive been told the harness and ecu is out of a 1991 alltrac JDM. Ive been using the 1991 alltrac ewd. I'm pretty sure I have a bad ecm here. Ive been over the harness many times and I have power to the coil. The car is throwing a code 12 for distributor signal. If you read through this topic it may answer this in more detail. I really appriciate any help you can give me. You guys on 6gc are the only source I have for help in my situation. Nobody at work gives a crap enough to help me diag. my problem. So again thank you! I am trying to find an ecm that will just plug into my harness without me repinning any connectors if possible. Even if its temporary. I just want to know if the harness is correct and what my problem is. If I cant find an exact match ecu, I suppose I'll just buy whatever I can get my hands on. If you need more detail please just ask. Thanks!

[Dr_Tweak]

Okay well that's your problem right there, that ECU is for the '92 and up so you need to rewire the harness for the '92 and up pinout if it isn't correct. Confirm which harness you have by comparing the wire colors on the pinout diagram with the connectors. For example, Pin 1 on the large 26-pin connector should be Light Green for the '92, and Yellow for the '91.

A bad ECU will generally not give you a CEL at all. Generally.

-Doc

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Dec 27, 2006 - 7:45 PM

[toyotacrazy]

omg. I hope your right. Ill look into it and get back to you. thanks!

[toyotacrazy]

Ok, I think I got this figured out. Here it goes....
I believe the ecm was just thrown with the swap later and the original ecu was left with the car or something. Because I have a 89661-2B280 ecm. Ive been wiring the car for a 1991 celica all trac. All the connectors and wires for the 1991 match up. Even the ones that I didnt repin for the distributor ect. were correctly corrosponding with the 1991 ewd. So I found an ecm part# 89661-20751. In my little theory I should be able to buy this ecm and plug it right in and be ok. Does this sound right to you? Thanks.

Thanks to lagos:

JDM 185 ecu's-
89661-20750=89/10-90/03(superceeded to 20751)
89661-20751=90/03-91/08
89661-2b310=91/08-92/02
89661-2b280=91/08-93/09

[Dr_Tweak]

Yeap, that's exactly right. I've had the same thing happen to me before, that's how I knew after reading the thread over, reading what you did, and then seeing the mysterious code 12 it rang a bell right away.

20751 is the one you want, yes. By the way, the 89661-17321 will also work for you, that's the MR2 version which works just fine.

In my case, I just repinned the connectors and used the ECU that they sent me, it only took a few hours.

-Doc

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Dec 27, 2006 - 9:33 PM

[toyotacrazy]

Thats awsome. I cant believe the same thing happened to you. CRAZY! I think Im going to buy the other ecm and sell the one I have. I just am overwhelmed at this point and want my celica back! I also dont have much spare time and its now cold in the garage. Thank you very much!

[Dr_Tweak]

It seems that every swap I do, I run into some new problem that I've never seen before. But every time that I figure it out, I'm better equipped for the next swap. I figure maybe someday I'll have all the answers to all the problems

I'm glad I could help. Let me know if you need anything else.

-Doc

[phattyduck]

I figure maybe someday I'll have all the answers to all the problems

-Charlie

[toyotacrazy]

It runs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I got it up and running. The correct ecu did the trick! Just working out the bugs now.....It idles high until I pinch off the large hose on the drivers side of the intake manifold. Then it goes down to normal idle. I think that hose goes to the wastegate. I gotta get a better look at it. At least it runs. Thanks all!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kadett]

Congrats

[Dr_Tweak]

Excellent, I'm glad that we figured out your problem! Take a pic of that vacuum line and we should be able to tell you where it goes.

-Doc

[toyotacrazy]

Ill get the pic on later. I posted another page with my boost issue. Im only boosting to 6-7 psi. If I pinch off the vac hose going to the turbo it boosts until fuel cut. ~14 psi. Is that normal?

[Dr_Tweak]

Yeah it will do that if you pinch the line off. You should have two lines going to the wastegate actuator, one of them goes to the turbo and the other goes to a VSV (vacuum switching valve) under the intake manifold. Do you have that set up right?

-Doc