cone filter - does it really make a difference?, newb questions Options

[BonzaiCelica]

TRD and K&N are Oiled drop in filters. OEM, Apexi, Fujita, Green, AEM and Weapon R are all Dryflow Filters. I already have a custom short ram intake on my beams motor and It sounds awesome!

All 5sfe, 7afe and 3sgte along with 3rd gen 3SGE run MAP Sensor on the intake.

3S-GE Motors run MAF sensor or Air Flow Meter and it controls 99.9% of the AIR/FUEL Ratio. So that arises a problem and I'm either:

A. Running Rich up in the high RPM

or

B. Running Lean which is a bad thing.

I'm installing a AEM wideband Sensor very soon to see hows my car is running with the custom short ram intake. I just pray to God that the guy I sold my original intake from my beams engine will sell it back to me soon. He said he just needs to pass smog first or something like that. Finding an beams intake is so darn hard. Some Members with beams motor do is that have enough money, upgrade to a standalone ecu, and then convert the MAF sensor to MAP so they cany can run any size air intake piping they like without worrying about Air/Fuel Ratio's screwing up the engine.

[BonzaiCelica]

TRD is around $65 and my budget is $45.

[Cuts_the_Pilot]

Ignoring the fact that a pod filter (as they are called in aus) suck in hot air when they are just kicking around in an engine bay (and not in an airbox where they get cold air only) can ONLY give you a power increase because of one or both of the following reasons (put simply). (also assuming the stock airbox is a reasonably well designed bit of kit, which most modern stuff is, expecially for lightly modded cars, most manufacturers are a lot smarter then us after all).

If the pod has a larger surface area (for the sake of the point assume the pod filter has the same filtering ability as the OE panel filter in its box), so larger filtering surface area = less restriction for the engine = slight power increase

If the pod filter less filtering ability (for the sake of the argument assume the pod is the same or smaller filter surface area as the OE panel filter in its box), this is not desirable, less filtering ability = dirty air = engine is eating
sh!t

Im in the process of doing an experiment to prove a point to all the pod filter ricers out there. I have the OE panel filter from my 205 im going to cut appart and stretch out to its full size, then calculate the filter surface area, then do the same for just a generic pod filter. Im reasonably confident the panel will have a larger area.

Most people will "say" they get a power increase from fitting a pod, but most of the time its placebo effect from induction noise, and the "hope" they get an increase.

If they do get actual dyno proven power gains (remember dynos are usually done with the bonnet up, not the usual frontal airflow seen when driving, so actual results might differ from on the street) Then you have to wonder have they gained power from having a larger surface area or filtering less?

Following on from that how many people are replacing a reasonably new (and therefore not restrictive) OE filter with their fully sick pod filter? My guess is not many, usually it will be an old dirty restrictive OE filter, meaning the same or better gain would also be achieved with a new OE filter.

Here is a quick link that a guy did on a uzz30 soarer comparing pressure drop comparing dirty filters, to clean ones, to k&n drop in panels etc. Also modifying/replacing the stock airbox with an improved model.

planet soarer test

Its been mentioned about dry vs wet filters, naturally if you have an afm or maf then running an oiled filter is going to result in oil getting on the electronics, possibly causing incorrect readings = car running **** etc.
Oiled filters bring another issue, since they require maintenance failing to do so reduces its ability to filter meaning you will be sucking in dirty air. Conversly over oiling means you will have excellent filtering but you will be sucking extra oil into the engine, and proving a bigger restriction then necessary.
(for those that dont know the process for a K&N is to buy their "filter cleaning kit" (ahem further costs), first you spray the cleaner stuff onto the filter, let it soak in for a few minutes, then wash out with water. Let that dry completly, then you spray the oil onto the filter. I'de like to think most people aren't idiots and know when to stop spraying the oil on, but its simply not the case.

Just FYI yes im running pod filters on my 205, its 2x apexi pods (multiple tests on the net show apexi pods are about the best for filtering of the aftermarket ones). Im running 2 pods to help with the "restriction" and they are housed in a custom airbox only getting cold air (headlight intake).
In the chaser ive got an apexi panel (because it was on sale, i wont hesitate to use a toyota filter when its due), JZX100 Chasers have a MAF so im not going to be using an oiled filter.


End rant

This post has been edited by Cuts_the_Pilot: Jun 16, 2011 - 5:41 AM

[delusionz]

Back when my ST205 was stock and I had major boost creep, given the same conditions (ie, back to back run, same gear, same revs, same stretch of road),

first of all during the day

running a K&N drop in panel filter in the stock air box boosted to 1.1bar, K&N pod filter on a 3" aluminum intake made roughly the same, but took a few extra hundred rpm to get there (lag)

now at night, the stock air box with K&N drop in panel filter still saw the same 1.1bar but the K&N pod filter on the 3" aluminum intake saw regular spikes of 1.2bar a couple hundred rpm earlier (more response)

so my rant, factory airbox has a CFM limit below what the 3sgte engine is capable of ingesting, but the performance you get from a pod filter really depends on getting cold air to it

This post has been edited by delusionz: Jun 17, 2011 - 11:18 PM

[trdproven]

TRD is around $65 and my budget is $45.

I dont think those other brands make dry filters for our cars, I could be wrong but never heard of it. your budget is 45 dollars, 20 dollar difference, its only 20 bucks.

[Neon90424]

Sard SPORTS EX 99$ for the rest of your life

[BonzaiCelica]

Sard SPORTS EX 99$ for the rest of your life

might be what I'm buying.....

[NYp8tBaller07]

ever look at trueflow foam air filters?

[hatchy_gt-s]

AEM makes a dry flow drop in filter for $30~
They dont make one for the Celica, but if you call they can find it, thats what I did for my BEAMS.

[Neon90424]

Sard SPORTS EX 99$ for the rest of your life

might be what I'm buying.....

I have the old one and I cant complain. I washed it out with carb cleaner once never seems to get dirty though