OH NOOO: I put Washer Fuild into my motor...., ... and it made it go faster! Options

[lagos]

over the past few months, ive been trying to street tune my car to get the most of out my setup. i noticed that i could run 13psi just fine, and sometimes even 14 or 15, but sooner or later i noticed that i would see knock response on my tvsv leds. after trying a lot of things to resolve the problem, i came to realize that the jdm ecu just runs too much timing advance for our pump gas. youll hear mr2oc guys always say how they keep their boost at 15psi, with no problems, but then you look at their dyno sheets and they are only making 200whp at that boost level. so, if the turbo is good for it, and we have the fuel to support it, then the problem must be timing.

so decided to fix the problem by buying water injection. i got the Devils Own water injection kit. i have it running pure washer fluid, 3gpl nozzle, and injection starts at 10psi. it made a huge difference! i can now run 16psi, with no knock and the car pulls like crazy. ive yet to try any more boost then that ( and i probably wont), but im confident that it would do 18psi with no knock, if i really wanted to push it. youll hear people say the ct26 falls on its face after 15psi.... but all of that changes with water injection. your intake charge is cooled down in a major way, and it makes a world of difference, especially on our jdm ecu's that are tuned for higher octain gas.

here are some pics. i installed it in my trunk, because i had almost no room in the engine bay. sorry for the wiring mess, i was going to clean it up before posting pics, but its just to damn cold out right now.







This post has been edited by lagos: Jan 11, 2007 - 11:30 PM

[WannabeGT4]

Nice. I'm definitely going to look into that since I'm running an RC ECU.

[Batman722]

about time you posted about it Art, nice job

1/2 gallon tank ? and you ran the tube from the hatch to the bay (make sure it doesn't get kinked) and what do you plan on using instead of washer fluid (for the winter, I would assume water in the summer) ?

[WannabeGT4]

Might as well use washer fluid year round. The methanol couldn't hurt anything.

[hellsyphon]

Did you try using methanol or mix of methanol and distilled water instead of windshield washer fluid? I remember reading awhile back on NASIOC that windshield washer fluid clogged the jets and left a blue residue inside of the engine on several people.

[lagos]

about time you posted about it Art, nice job

1/2 gallon tank ? and you ran the tube from the hatch to the bay (make sure it doesn't get kinked) and what do you plan on using instead of washer fluid (for the winter, I would assume water in the summer) ?

the lines are all run along the door still next to the lines for the rear window sprayer. so everything is protected and wont get kinked.

for the tank, i bought a generic coolant overflow tank. its a 2liter, i think? but you can also just use your normal washer tank. you would just have to mount the pump below the tank to make it easier for it to pump.

im going to run washer fluid all year round. it contains about 40% meth and 60% water. the water helps cool, while the meth adds oxygen and fuel to it (at least thats how i understand it). so its best to run a mix of meth and water for best results, which you get with cheap washer fluid.

mannys kit is on order. woot for smurf piss !

[lagos]

Did you try using methanol or mix of methanol and distilled water instead of windshield washer fluid? I remember reading awhile back on NASIOC that windshield washer fluid clogged the jets and left a blue residue inside of the engine on several people.

no way it will clog the jet. even the place that sells these kits along with many people that use it, recommend washer fluid. as far as having pistons coated blue....im cool with that. i see nothing wrong with that. the residue they see is probably just normal carbon build up with some of the blue dye they put into the fluid.

[lagos]

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/universal...on-kit-p-8.html

this is the kit i got. you cant beat it for the price.

[Defgeph]

Looks good dude, its nice to see you push the limits of the 26. Can't wait to see the new dyno numbers. Good luck.

[hitcachi]

Definitly cool! Where did you find this? Is this something that you have been reading about for awhile? Either way, nice work pushing the ct26.

[lagos]

Definitly cool! Where did you find this? Is this something that you have been reading about for awhile? Either way, nice work pushing the ct26.

water injection has been around for a long time. i always thought about getting it, but everything i saw was in the 3-600$ price range. someone on mr2oc posted about this kit, and i starter to look into it more. seems tons of srt4 guys use this with great results. so i decided to jump on it.

[lagos]

really great article about water injection
http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/WaterInjection.html

edit: found 2 more great reads

http://www.turbotuning.net/e_Grund_FAQ.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_(engines)

This post has been edited by lagos: Jan 12, 2007 - 2:01 AM

[lagos]

great quotes from one of the links

"16. Should I upgrade my intercooler or get a water injection system first?
They do different jobs, intercooler makes the air denser and thus giving more power. Unfortunately more power means higher combustion temperature and pressure, so water injection is becoming a more important addition to prevent the onset on detonation due to peak pressures and peak combustion temperatures.

The natural progression would be to retaining your stock intercooler and add water injection to supplement the existing cooling capacity of the stock system, charge temperature in particular.

When you decided to go all out for big power, the entire system would have to be upgraded, not just intercooler, turbo, up and down pipes etc. Water injection should definately be included on your list of upgrade components.



17. So I need to buy both (WIS/intercooler) at the same time?
Ideally, yes. Given that water injection can cool the inlet temperature as well as suppressing detonation, so water injection should be your prime consideration, as an intercooler cannot perform in-cylinder cooling.



18. I want to increase my boost pressure to maximise the full flow range of the original fuel injectors, would I then need water injection?

Definitely yes, by stretching the fuel supply capacity to its limit, the Engine management would have lost its ability to dump fuel to assist the cooling of the combustion chamber, the running temperature will increase and soon bring about the onset of detonation and eventually lead to engine failure.

8. Can I use windshield washer fluid?
Although most contain some glycol and detergent, most windshield washer fluids are up to 50% alcohol (methanol, ethanol, isopropanol) and make an excellent Boost Cooler®. Try to find one that indicates "contains methanol".


"

This post has been edited by lagos: Jan 12, 2007 - 2:13 AM

[presure2]

WOOT!
good job art, once my kit is in and installed, ill post some 5sfte results as well

[x_itchy_b_x]

Sweet! Water injection is pretty niffty, at first im not gunna lie, i thought someone was really dumb enough to put washer fluid in the oil or something lol.
I had the same feeling free boosting the ct26 with the larger intercooler. basicly the same effect as water injection because what its doing is cooling the charge more. Id like to try water injection on the new setup, but im not sure if it will really benefit me, i doubt my ic will need the help.

[lagos]

Sweet! Water injection is pretty niffty, at first im not gunna lie, i thought someone was really dumb enough to put washer fluid in the oil or something lol.
I had the same feeling free boosting the ct26 with the larger intercooler. basicly the same effect as water injection because what its doing is cooling the charge more. Id like to try water injection on the new setup, but im not sure if it will really benefit me, i doubt my ic will need the help.

your right, a huge IC would help out a lot too, but its important to remember that WI has certain benefits that no intercooler can achieve. "an intercooler cannot perform in-cylinder cooling". thats a pretty big benefit. its similar to what you would get with running race gas all the time.

[brianforster]

what all did the install involve?

[CilverSeliST205]

im going to run washer fluid all year round. it contains about 40% meth and 60% water. the water helps cool, while the meth adds oxygen and fuel to it (at least thats how i understand it). so its best to run a mix of meth and water for best results, which you get with cheap washer fluid.

Yes water does absorb heat, however the injecting alcohol increases overall octane of fuel combusted

I am planing on getting a meth injection kit that will come on progressivley from 8 psi, hopefully i can turn 93 into 95 octane like my ecu was designed for, untill i get my PFC datalogit and tune it for. Maybe with 100% methanol injection you can add enough advance to make 93 act like 100 octane ? if i could run 18 psi on race gas safely, i should be able to do so with proper injection and tune.

Congrats, results seem promising!

[quicknstyle]

forgive me for my noobness, but i always thought water injections was when u sprayed the intercooler to further lower the temperature of the air. but by this i guess it something that you actuall inject with the fuel??? im at work so cant read the links, but how does this work? i can understand the reasoning to use methanol because it burns much cooler than gas, but is this really something that you inject with fuel? and is it safe for continued use over a long period of time?

[lagos]

im going to run washer fluid all year round. it contains about 40% meth and 60% water. the water helps cool, while the meth adds oxygen and fuel to it (at least thats how i understand it). so its best to run a mix of meth and water for best results, which you get with cheap washer fluid.

Yes water does absorb heat, however the injecting alcohol increases overall octane of fuel combusted

I am planing on getting a meth injection kit that will come on progressivley from 8 psi, hopefully i can turn 93 into 95 octane like my ecu was designed for, untill i get my PFC datalogit and tune it for. Maybe with 100% methanol injection you can add enough advance to make 93 act like 100 octane ? if i could run 18 psi on race gas safely, i should be able to do so with proper injection and tune.

Congrats, results seem promising!

you can run 100% meth on this kit as well as buy a progressive controller for it. but, from what ive read, you'll get the best results by using a 50/50 mix. the meth for the octain, and the water for cooling the boost charge.

forgive me for my noobness, but i always thought water injections was when u sprayed the intercooler to further lower the temperature of the air. but by this i guess it something that you actuall inject with the fuel??? im at work so cant read the links, but how does this work? i can understand the reasoning to use methanol because it burns much cooler than gas, but is this really something that you inject with fuel? and is it safe for continued use over a long period of time?

your thinking of an intercooler sprayer. water injection sprays the water inside of on engine to lower the cyinder temps as well as raise the octain level of your fuel. this lets you run more boost, and more timing advance and provides great knock protection. its totally safe to use. read the links when you can to learn more about it.

what all did the install involve?

its pretty simple.

you mount a tank (or use your washer tank),
install the pump,
wire in a realy,
drill and tap a hole for the nozzle
wire in the presure switch and connect it to a vac line.

This post has been edited by lagos: Jan 12, 2007 - 12:44 PM