What kind of gas mileage do you get? Options

[Rayme]

The rating for 94 celicas are as follow :

ST 1.8 City: 26-27 Highway: 32-32
GT 2.2liter : City: 23 Highway 29/30

My celica with 250 000 KM+ is pretty spot on with that (even better when I'm careful). And when I mean highway Its purely highway (over 5 hours of 60+). People not getting the proper mileage you just need a tune-up, it's all the same engine...or change your driving habits.

[6strngs]

People not getting the proper mileage you just need a tune-up, it's all the same engine...or change your driving habits.

I'm pretty sure I don't need a tune-up. I have new-ish spark plugs, wires, distributor cap and rotor, synthetic oil (changed religiously every 3K) EGR valve, thermostat, coolant, radiator, clutch, flywheel, tranny fluid, axles, and probably other stuff I can't remember. the only thing is the air filter has like 12,000 miles on it, but it doesn't appear dirty.

I'm seriously considering using my AFC Neo to pull some fuel at low throttle bewlow 4K rpms. I'm kinda scared though, how much do you think I could do it safely? I don't have a wideband on yet. I was thinking only like 5%.

[Bitter]

People not getting the proper mileage you just need a tune-up, it's all the same engine...or change your driving habits.

I'm pretty sure I don't need a tune-up. I have new-ish spark plugs, wires, distributor cap and rotor, synthetic oil (changed religiously every 3K) EGR valve, thermostat, coolant, radiator, clutch, flywheel, tranny fluid, axles, and probably other stuff I can't remember. the only thing is the air filter has like 12,000 miles on it, but it doesn't appear dirty.

I'm seriously considering using my AFC Neo to pull some fuel at low throttle bewlow 4K rpms. I'm kinda scared though, how much do you think I could do it safely? I don't have a wideband on yet. I was thinking only like 5%.

i'd suggest you dont mess with low throttle at all till you get a wideband, it bounces around pretty perfect at part throttle here, maybe even slightly on the lean side with the header.

[Negative]

x2

[Rayme]

People not getting the proper mileage you just need a tune-up, it's all the same engine...or change your driving habits.

I'm pretty sure I don't need a tune-up. I have new-ish spark plugs, wires, distributor cap and rotor, synthetic oil (changed religiously every 3K) EGR valve, thermostat, coolant, radiator, clutch, flywheel, tranny fluid, axles, and probably other stuff I can't remember. the only thing is the air filter has like 12,000 miles on it, but it doesn't appear dirty.

I'm seriously considering using my AFC Neo to pull some fuel at low throttle bewlow 4K rpms. I'm kinda scared though, how much do you think I could do it safely? I don't have a wideband on yet. I was thinking only like 5%.

It could be anything, a mechanical defect, like a malfunctioning map sensor, coolant sensor or o2 sensor or even a leaky fuel injector up to a sticking brake (I doubt it).

You said you get 22 mpg? Thats 1 less mpg than the EPA rating (which is always said to be too high), must just want to relax on the accelerator a bit

This post has been edited by Rayme: Apr 25, 2007 - 9:28 AM

[LewFX]

has in so cal is 3.25...i over maintain my car and get 22-23 mpg...beams engine will surely help!

[Jeremiah]

synthetic oil (changed religiously every 3K)

Why? Even crapy synths are good to 6,000 miles, and the better ones go to 15,000 miles. Get a good quality filter (stay the hell away from Fram, they're CRAP - NAPA Gold is REALLY nice) and good synthetic (Pennzoil Platinum) and change it every 10,000 miles. Anything more frequent is a total waste, and doesn't protect your engine any better at all.

Go here for good oil data.

[GotToyota]

synthetic oil (changed religiously every 3K)

Why? Even crapy synths are good to 6,000 miles, and the better ones go to 15,000 miles. Get a good quality filter (stay the hell away from Fram, they're CRAP - NAPA Gold is REALLY nice) and good synthetic (Pennzoil Platinum) and change it every 10,000 miles. Anything more frequent is a total waste, and doesn't protect your engine any better at all.

Go here for good oil data.

That's completely true. Synthetic oils are known to actually last longer, and that is even way too short for NORMAL oil change intervals (Toyota encourages every 7500 miles). You can easily hit 10k miles and be just fine. And good suggestion on the Pennzoil Platinum, I use it in mine and it's a great oil. Also, change your oil filter every other oil change instead of each time, it saves you money and you're not wasting perfectly good oil filters.

BTW, I recently got 27MPG staying at 70MPH or below on the highway. Can't wait to get a K&N replacement filter to see if the mileage goes up.

-Matt

This post has been edited by GotToyota: Apr 25, 2007 - 8:40 PM

[WannabeGT4]

19mpg

3SGTE on low boost.
Automatic transmission.
No 2nd gear or torque converter lockup at the moment.

[6strngs]

toyota recommends 7500 under normal use and like 3750 under severe conditions. what most people don't seem to realize is, that just driving your car around the city or stop and go traffic (is there ever anything else in california?) are all considered severe conditions.

according to my auto class instructor, synthetic oils claim to be able to last longer between oil changes but he says the additives in the oil wear out just as fast which is why he said you change your synthetic just as often as regular oil. now, I don't claim him as being the ultimate authority on everything, but he was a GM service technician for 10 years and has been teaching college level automotive classes for several years since.

anyway, after seeing this thread, I've been determined to try to get better gas milage. so I've been driving as conservative as possible. it's boring as anything and takes all the fun out of driving this car, but so far I've gone about 250 miles on this tank and I still have more than a quarter tank. (I usually fill up as soon as the fuel light comes on for the first time. which is a little less than a quarter tank) so I'm expecting it to be like 24-25 mpg. lol. the first 200 or so miles of this were driven how I normally drive though.

[Bitter]

nah, additive packages now last the life of the oil really. more frequent changes now are needed when the oil becomes contaminated with fuels or particulates.


i dont doubt he knows his stuff well, but dealers like to change oil often since it puts customers at ease. one of my teachers was also a GM tech, but he taught at their training center as well (gets his hands on all the new models). he told us that 3k miles is baloney unless ALL you do are short stop and go trips on a cold engine, just a few miles at operating temp will start to boil off the gasoline thats washed into the crank. he said that convention oils now (good ones) will do 5k change intervals for a commuter no problem, its the soccer moms you gotta watch out for.

[6strngs]

nah, additive packages now last the life of the oil really. more frequent changes now are needed when the oil becomes contaminated with fuels or particulates.


i dont doubt he knows his stuff well, but dealers like to change oil often since it puts customers at ease. one of my teachers was also a GM tech, but he taught at their training center as well (gets his hands on all the new models). he told us that 3k miles is baloney unless ALL you do are short stop and go trips on a cold engine, just a few miles at operating temp will start to boil off the gasoline thats washed into the crank. he said that convention oils now (good ones) will do 5k change intervals for a commuter no problem, its the soccer moms you gotta watch out for.

well there you go. 99% of my driving is less than 5 miles. but it takes like 15 minutes to go those 5 miles. so my car usually reaches normal operating temperature for like 10 minutes. but it's still mostly stop and go.

[Bitter]

ya, thats what he calls 'soccer mom' driving.

[x_itchy_b_x]

horrible gas mileage here. just idling i can notice the needle going down... Very very slowly but still. boosting it drinks gas. but its not my daily anymore so its all good in the hood.

[Negative]

synthetic oil (changed religiously every 3K)

Why? Even crapy synths are good to 6,000 miles, and the better ones go to 15,000 miles. Get a good quality filter (stay the hell away from Fram, they're CRAP - NAPA Gold is REALLY nice) and good synthetic (Pennzoil Platinum) and change it every 10,000 miles. Anything more frequent is a total waste, and doesn't protect your engine any better at all.

Go here for good oil data.

synthetic oil (changed religiously every 3K)

Why? Even crapy synths are good to 6,000 miles, and the better ones go to 15,000 miles. Get a good quality filter (stay the hell away from Fram, they're CRAP - NAPA Gold is REALLY nice) and good synthetic (Pennzoil Platinum) and change it every 10,000 miles. Anything more frequent is a total waste, and doesn't protect your engine any better at all.

Go here for good oil data.

That's completely true. Synthetic oils are known to actually last longer, and that is even way too short for NORMAL oil change intervals (Toyota encourages every 7500 miles). You can easily hit 10k miles and be just fine. And good suggestion on the Pennzoil Platinum, I use it in mine and it's a great oil. Also, change your oil filter every other oil change instead of each time, it saves you money and you're not wasting perfectly good oil filters.

BTW, I recently got 27MPG staying at 70MPH or below on the highway. Can't wait to get a K&N replacement filter to see if the mileage goes up.

-Matt

You should see my oil at 2500miles [Granted I live in Houston where there is traffic at 9PM on a weekday]. I use Mobile1 fully synthetic 15w-50 with a Toyota filter and change it at 2500-3Kmiles everytime. The oil is thin and black and the engine feels so much smoother after the change.
Furthermore I'm a lubrication engineer for large engines and compressors in the oil and natural gas industry. Unless you make mostly long highway trips you're above info is just dead wrong. The worst of which is the bit about reusing your oil filter. You can starve your motor for oil on an older engine with higher milelage like that.

[6strngs]

You should see my oil at 2500miles [Granted I live in Houston where there is traffic at 9PM on a weekday]. I use Mobile1 fully synthetic 15w-50 with a Toyota filter and change it at 2500-3Kmiles everytime. The oil is thin and black and the engine feels so much smoother after the change.
Furthermore I'm a lubrication engineer for large engines and compressors in the oil and natural gas industry. Unless you make mostly long highway trips you're above info is just dead wrong. The worst of which is the bit about reusing your oil filter. You can starve your motor for oil on an older engine with higher milelage like that.

x2 I use mobil one synthetic 10w-30 and toyota filters. when I change my oil after 3K it's usually way way darker than the brand new stuff I put it.

and I use a new filter everytime. it's not like changing the oil is a hard or expensive job, and it's not like you hurt anything by changing it more often.

[GotToyota]

For those that are doubting me, read this forum here:

http://www.supramania.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=108

Very good info, you'll learn something.

-Matt

[Negative]

I'm not doubting you - we just obviously drive differently. I told you I am an Engineer at a lubrication system Manufacturer [Engineering Manager to be exact] and I'm fully aware of the benifits of synthetic oils [also the downsides] - that's why I use them religiously. But my oil is pretty broken down @ 3K miles and that's why I change it then. You do what works for you.
BTW - Check the viscosity , just with your fingers, the next time your odometer gets to 3K. Be sure to have some fresh oil to compare to. I think you will be able to feel the difference. For people who are fanatical about maintaining their engines like 6strings and I - thats reason enough to change out more often. And certainly never to reuse oil filters.
BTW2 - Just because they drive Supras doesn't make them experts on lubrication.

This post has been edited by Negative: Apr 26, 2007 - 4:28 PM

[Jeremiah]

Can't wait to get a K&N replacement filter to see if the mileage goes up.

I hope that's K&N air filter only *shudder*. Their Oil filters are the only ones as bad as Frams. They're total crap.

toyota recommends 7500 under normal use and like 3750 under severe conditions.

Keep in mind, many factory recommended service intervals are just plain wrong sometimes.

Your change interval should take into consideration the following:
1) Your driving conditions. Sever driving (Stop & Go, Short-Trips, High Temp, Forced Induction, Racing, 4 Wheeling...) conditions will require more frequent changes.
2) The quality / type of your oil & filter.

what most people don't seem to realize is, that just driving your car around the city or stop and go traffic (is there ever anything else in california?) are all considered severe conditions.

Yes and No. Stop and go driving is more harsh because:
1) During idling, the engine oil pressure is at it's lowest. However, this isn't as big of a factor for most Toyota engines. Honda & Toyota engines run more volume / higher pressure oil pumps than other manufacturers, so even at idle the internal bits are well lubricated.

2) During acceleration, more gas is needed to get an engine moving, so there's a higher percentage of fuel/air ratio (I think yota's are 14.5:1) during acceleration. This extra gas bathes off more oil from the cylinder walls, and more fuel "seeps" into the oil system (which makes it go bad sooner). It's the latter we're concerned with when addressing change intervals. Newer formulations of oil (including conventional oil, but especially synth oil) are WAY WAY WAY better at handling extra fuel / moisture in them than the oils of old.

he was a GM service technician for 10 years and has been teaching college level automotive classes for several years since.

Oil analysis tests done after oil was pulled from an engine says otherwise. Trust whatever source you wish.
What is oil analysis
Several charts & graphs and other fun data sources

Unless you make mostly long highway trips you're above info is just dead wrong.

Do you have any data to support this? I ask because other engineers in the oil industry don't agree with you.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/sho...ge=0#Post817161
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/pos...&Board=UBB6
http://www.autoeducation.com/autoshop101/oil-change-9.htm
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/lng_article/index.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/sho...true#Post855942
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/pos...&Board=UBB3


Throwing out blanket statements without regard to build quality, formulations, or brands discredits your statements. It stands to reason (and there's tuns of oil analysis to back this up) good quality oils & filters will have longer service intervals than poor quality ones.

I use Mobile1 fully synthetic 15w-50

It's hard for me to take you seriously when you're using a crappy oil (Mobile 1 re-formulated a while back, and it sucks now), and anything higher than 10W-30.

The worst of which is the bit about reusing your oil filter. You can starve your motor for oil on an older engine with higher milelage like that.

It's completely clear to me you have no fundamental knowledge of how oil filters work. You're inferring to the oil filter getting too clogged to allow proper oil flow through the oil system. In the US, oil filter manufacturers are required by law to have bypass filters specifically to make sure the engine doesn't fail due to oil starvation.

The worst that can happen is that the filter will get clogged with contaminants, and the bypass filter will allow unfiltered oil to flow through the system. In the hundreds of oil filter tests I have read about, none - not a SINGLE oil filter (not even the HORRIBLE QUALITY ONES) had got so many contaminants in it that it was starving the engine, or even utilizing the bypass valve as long as the filter was changed before 10,000 miles. Amsoil EaO, Purolators and Wix (Also sold under Napa Gold label) are known to easily reach 15,000 miles and not be anywhere near clogging - even with guys who are 4 wheeling (which makes for some of the dirtiest oil).

That said, I change my oil filter at every oil change anyway 'cause I run a K&N air filter which dirties up the oil 2x faster than a paper filter

[GotToyota]

Negative: I never said that they were experts because they drive Supras. Look for a guy named "JDUB" on that forum, tell him what you told me and I bet he'd laugh at you.

Jeremiah: I'm talking about the air filter, trust me, I know K&N oil filters are crap. And thanks for bringing up factual info, a lot of people can talk but don't have facts to back it up.

-Matt