More 3sgte info, lots of reading and searching Options

[Uppitycracker]

Ok I have been reading alot about this site and searching on search engines and here is some questions I have came up with:

1. "a cheaper alternative for the ECU/Wiring situation would be to use your stock ECU to control chassis electrical functions, and an aftermarket standalone engine management system to run the engine. A new Haltech could run you $1000 to do this. A Wolf, maybe $750. Also, this will eliminate the need for some of those expensive sensors like AFM".

Does this eliminate all the rewiring? How hard are these stand alone systems to hook up? Will I not need a new wiring harness and all that anymore?

2. "stock exhaust wont bolt up to the 3S engine, so you will need a custom exhaust which accomadates the new engine."

Is this just a simple case of lining up a new pipe or does it all have to be replaced? I know I will be going to like 2.5" piping eventually but for right after the swap Im talking?

So my shopping list for the basic swap would be, the complete engine which I already have a source for, a standalone system, and all the little things like gaskets, belts, and fluids, which Im sure I just get at toyota.

[AJcelica]

i've been doing a bunch of research for this swap too and thought that i'd throw in my $0.02

what i've heard from 96% of people is that the entire front clip is the best way to go... if you don't get a front clip you're left looking for a bazillion (<---my super technical term ) tiny little parts just to get the entire thing to run properly... also if you get a front clip you get the ECU designed for that engine (simple is good)

as for exaust, all of the swaps i've heard of have gone with custom jobs... that's really all i know...

would 2.5 be sufficient for the 3sgte? just wondering that myself

[abatardi]

Haltech for $1k? Hardly..

Yeah, and bring that to a tuning shop and you can expect to triple that...

I paid I think $1350 for my haltech, and got it installed and dyno tuned, had my exhaust welded up and polished intercooler pipes made for about another $3k. And, by the way, that's only after the guy refunded my $1k cash because he blew cylinder 2 on me. If you install everything yourself the tuning would be like $1k. It's possible to do this as the wiring isn't hard, but getting all the ignition settings right (considering haltech supplied instructions didn't work with my engine ignition) and getting it to start is a little difficult without some diagnostic gear.

- aba

[AJcelica]

abatardi is a celica god in my books

remember me from toyotacelicaweb? the guy with asperations for a ST185 after he gets his car? lol...

i feel like such a loser

[abatardi]

haha yep i remember you.. but you didn't post over there very much.. and i haven't really been to celicaweb in a while.

how's it going though? my car is back to sitting in the garage after the aforementioned events took place (the guy was supposed to replace the entire cooling system and forgot the thermostat, which was obviously stuck after sitting for over 6 months).

Oh well, I guess it's just cursed.

- aba

[AJcelica]

awww, sorry to hear that dude, hope everything turns out

i'm still stuck celica-less as of now... but things are starting to pick up...

i'll get one eventually, but i enjoy reading more about every aspect of the car rather then opening my big trap and getting shot down with the right answer lol

i have some cash put away and am slowly building on that... i'm probably going to hold out on buying the car until i have enough for the swap too

we'll see what happens

[Uppitycracker]

QUOTE (abatardi @ Jul 21, 2003 - 11:38 PM)

Haltech for $1k? Hardly.. Yeah, and bring that to a tuning shop and you can expect to triple that... I paid I think $1350 for my haltech, and got it installed and dyno tuned, had my exhaust welded up and polished intercooler pipes made for about another $3k. And, by the way, that's only after the guy refunded my $1k cash because he blew cylinder 2 on me. If you install everything yourself the tuning would be like $1k. It's possible to do this as the wiring isn't hard, but getting all the ignition settings right (considering haltech supplied instructions didn't work with my engine ignition) and getting it to start is a little difficult without some diagnostic gear. - aba

Ok so the heltek is easy to wire up but requires alot of tuning? Im assuming your regular mechanic wouldnt be able to do that eh? I think there is a "tuning" shop in the area but i dont know if they deal with imports.
So to some that up it does eliminate the most the rewiring accept wiring the heltech up? and this does eliminate the wiring harness issue?

The intercooler, is it ok to leave it on top of the engine? will it fit under the hood like that? Id eventually get a new one and bring it down in front but I mean just for the first while? and the exhaust piping isnt very extensive?

Ok so for all my gear im looking at about 3000, from the prices Ive gathered from suppliers. Installation will be about 500-1000 from a guy that works at the shop I go too. Ill see if he can do my exhaust for me which Im sure he can. So if he cant get it started thats where I start to sweat and have it towed to a perfomance shop or too the shop I normally go too.


Anyways thanks for the help guys and sorry for the million more questions, I just really wanna understand this 100%.

Tim

[AJcelica]

it's not a good idea to leave the intercooler up top because there isn't room for it... if you look at pictures of actual OEM GT4 hoods you'll see that there is extra room for the IC

either you're going to have to change the hood and front kit (because there would be a gap if you just changed the hood) or you're going to have to go front mount right away

also without the hood grill the intercooler would heat soak and everything will go wrong then...

do you already have the engine or something? because the front clip is going to save you A LOT of time and frustration

[HyperDeathKill]

You wouldn't want a top mount intercooler anyway, go fmic if you can. I hear that there are ones that fit almost perfectly into the non-gt4s.

[abatardi]

i don't think that your average local tuning shop would be able to dyno tune the haltech. I would bring it to a haltech dealer if you got one... but, just buy the front clip. It's gonna cost you like $2k-$2500 shipped and come with everything you need. That's less than the price of the haltech + tuning combined.

- aba

[Uppitycracker]

wow it will really be only 2500?? If that is the case then I would get one for sure! I was under the impression that it would be atleast 5000 for a front clip, If thats the case then I would go for the clip since I want the the gt4 look aswell. Know any good suppliers that have them in stock normally? Would this also help with the wiring situation? Sorry im stuck on that but thats the big road block Im facing.

[yep]

if you want the gt4 look you'll have to buy the bumper and hood. most front clips that you can find are for the 90-93 all trac.

http://www.jarcoinc.com/
- Jarco has 2 all trac front clips for $2k.

that is the only one i know of that have 3s-gte engines in stock

[Uppitycracker]

Alright Ive been searching all around and your right Id be better off with the 5th gen clip, and Ive also been searching the board for the pros of getting a clip, ya people say it is alot easier but dont say why. Does the front clip turn this into a basic transplant?

[HyperDeathKill]

I don't know if you want to take the gt4 bumper and hood, it'll be in serious need of bodywork if you get it off a front clip, might be cheeper just to buy em. But remeber, that if you do it yourself, you'll probably pay $2500 at max for the clip, $500 shipping, and then $500 in misc parts I've heard.

To get your haltech tuned, I would first do research into the tuning companies in your area. Your not the first person to get a haltech, and often dealerships charge you redicious amounts for anything.

[Uppitycracker]

Ya I Im scrapping the heltek if the fornt clip will be easier, so all i need to know is if it makes the swap into a basic transplant. The only thing that worries me is the exhaust and intercooler.

[Swifty]

QUOTE (Uppitycracker @ Jul 22, 2003 - 9:37 AM)

wow it will really be only 2500?? If that is the case then I would get one for sure! I was under the impression that it would be atleast 5000 for a front clip, If thats the case then I would go for the clip since I want the the gt4 look aswell. Know any good suppliers that have them in stock normally? Would this also help with the wiring situation? Sorry im stuck on that but thats the big road block Im facing.

hey man, its only 2500 but thats in US currency, its more like 3600 CND, but yeah definately go with the front clip, thats what im planning on doing, but im still researching the swap, theres a couple little things i want to work out first
the front clip helps with the wiring as long as u get a left hand dirve clip, if u get the RHD front clip, u might have some problems, but depedning on what gen of 3SGTE you want to get this can be solved, or even avoided. as for the wiring...if you dont know how to do it, pay for it, its worth the money to have it done by a pro.
good luck with the swap

[Uppitycracker]

thanks for the info man, ya i know must of what i need to know in order to do the swap and its going to cost alot more then I initially thought, so im going to wait and think about it, try and gather a bit more info on the subject.

Im thinking now about maybe the 3sge vvti engine, its rare but i could just wait till I find one and go with it, as far as i know its a little more straight forward and avoids the complications of a turbo charger.

My one main problem is i live in an apartment so no storage, If I had a garage Id be down for sure and just store that baby and go from there, so basically if I do a swap everything has to be right there and ready which is alot harder then it sounds. But ya Im going to just wait it out and see what happens.

I still have to wait a month till I get my celica, still got the mx-3, I wish I liked that car more because there is a straight forward bolt in swap for it, 200hp jspec v6 klze engine.

[HyperDeathKill]

Geez, without a garage good luck. I hope you don't expect to get it done in a day, or even a week.

[AJcelica]

ya, it takes a good while to do the actual swapping.... pays to know people who own a garage... all the tools you need and the big jack makes it easier...

if you're looking at front clips, the majority (all?) of them are J-spec engines... which means you're going to have to get the wiring harness done by someone

the front clip is DEFINITELY easier for swap purposes, just think about it, you've got the entire front of the car. everything is there, no need to search around for some little part that's impossible to find because it's all right in front of you.

damn i want to get my celica and do the swap so bad...

[abatardi]

QUOTE (HyperDeathKill @ Jul 22, 2003 - 10:28 AM)

To get your haltech tuned, I would first do research into the tuning companies in your area. Your not the first person to get a haltech, and often dealerships charge you redicious amounts for anything.

I wouldn't trust haltech tuning to a non-dealer. There's a reason they have the status "dealer"... it's not just because they signed a reseller contract...they are trained and experienced in engine dyno tuning with haltech hardware and software.

- aba