Please help - looking for st205 conversion info. Options

[silverlude]

Ok, let it begin.

First of all - yes, I am looking for info to do a st205 conversion. Yes, I have searched and cannot find much useful info.

I don't want to waste anyone's time with this same old topic, so if you don't want to help, please hit the back button on your browser now. Also, if you have no real useful info, please do not post such things as "why don't you just import?" "why don't you just buy a DSM/5th gen All-Trac/EVO/WRX/VR-4...?" "It's not worth the time/money..." etc.

Bottom line is we have time/car/money and are looking for some great fun.

What I am looking for is USEFUL info on the conversion. Either access to someone who has done it before or someone who knows just what it is going to take.

We are also looking for connections to get some major parts. Anyone with personal experience getting clips, or possibly full parts-only cars from Japan or UK would be an asset.

Thanks in advance.

[GreenyST204]

First off Welcome to the site, Second for you first post you are straight in to it,
but you could not of looked very deep and their are many people on the site that are more than willing to help People.

A grate place to start is the Forced Induction Stickys
3sgte Swap

Next would be to search for every one else that has asked questions about the 3sgte I hope you know what that is as it is quite important.

Nearly every one here would say that it is a good idea if you know how, but some really want something more challenging lookup "3mzfe".

Body work is easy but be prepared for serious cash. things like the bonnet without anything but the metal will set you back quite a lot in Australia its $1600. what you need can be found here

Now I get to the bit you were dreading, for a full st205 conversion i presume you are looking for the AWD as well, this is the hard bit as every part needs to be custom fabricated and going to cost a real fortune.

I am not trying to turn you off

one thing i want to know is want is your time frame for the work because if you want it buy then end of the year it would be cheaper to fly a st205 from Japan to Mexico and try and screw the system that stops you buying one in USA. (Sorry Please do not try I dont want to see any more st205 Crushed and sent back )

I hope this opens some doors for you.

This post has been edited by GreenyST204: Jul 23, 2007 - 6:09 PM

[silverlude]

Thanks, Greeny!

We're pretty aware of the body being a bit spendy, but the body will be a bit down the road. We're doing the AWD conversion and engine swap first.

Time frame: we're looking at a couple of years if that's what it takes. As far as money goes... we have sufficient for our needs, and really aren't interested in importing because we really want a project and are in love with the st205. -I'm a student of engineering and want to stretch my brain a little. My bro-in-law whose car we're playing with owns an investing company and is financing our little operation.

I am thinking that the biggest project will be fabbing up the rear diff, and have heard that the RAV4 rear will work (can anyone verify?).

The problem I am having with searching for info is I find a bunch of threads where 17 yr olds say they're going to do a conversion and it turns into 5 pages of comments about how it's not worth it. Not real info on the stuff I need.

Thanks again for any info that will help.

[goferris]

purchase a gt4 front clip from japan. usually it will come with the tranny and the rear axle and differential. i live in provo and would love to help you out or atleast see the progress. i personally want to do ssIII conversion.
gl
there are 2 conversions that i know of. one for sure is CELIMAN. he had a white one that he converted to AWD. he recently sold it though. he would have the best info for you.
now do you also want to convert to the superstrut suspension as well? if so parts are very slim and will all have to be imported.

This post has been edited by goferris: Jul 24, 2007 - 10:22 AM

[silverlude]

purchase a gt4 front clip from japan. usually it will come with the tranny and the rear axle and differential. i live in provo and would love to help you out or atleast see the progress. i personally want to do ssIII conversion.
gl

We're going to be doing the work in Taylorsville. I'll make sure to keep you updated so you can come give some feedback or give a hand if you'd like.

That's good news that most clips come with the rear axle/diff. I am assuming at this point we are going to have to change up the rear suspension to match up with the new axle. Can anyone tell me how similar the rear suspension is on the two cars?

It seems that there would be a plethora of people who have done 3sgte swaps from clips that would have extra drive line bits hanging around. If anyone does, please I would probably be interested in buying some.

[celiman05]

hey i got your PM and figured i would give you some help.

first off, definatley look for a front clip. its the best way to go when your going to do such a major swap. finding all the odds and ends you need can really be a pain. the clip that i got, came with everything that i would imagine that i needed and then some. it cost about $4500 including shipping, but it was well worth it. i got it from this place called NAD auto out of Georgia. it came with, motor, tranny, drive shaft, rear diff, all the suspension, etc.

i would recomend that you do all of your research prior to taking the car apart so you know what your getting into. also, the wiring is pretty much what takes the longest, so if you can get that done first, it would be a big help.

as for the one that i completed, i swapped just about everything from the front clip into my car (besides the climate control.) therefor, the ECU wiring, and wiring under both fenders had to be lengthened. the fender wiring was the pain part. seeing as how its right hand drive, both sides had to switched. i just criss crossed them under the dash. some wirirng under the hood is going to need to be lengthened also.

the mototr itself was out and the new one in within a weekend and was fairly simple. MAKE SURE YOU CHANGE THE CLUTCH BEFORE PUTTING THE MOTOR IN. that was a stupid move on my part, cuz the motor had to come back out cuz the clutch was smoked.

the tunnel for the driveshaft already exists, on the cars so that is realatively easy cuz it runs right down where the exhuast goes. your just gonna have to make templets to figure out where the drive shaft brackets need to go. i think there is about two or three of them????? sorry its been a while. weld up the brackets out of sheet metal (doesnt have to be real thick sheet metal if you make them correctly.) once they are all made and placed up where they need to go, and fit....... then weld them up in place and seam seal them so they dont rust.

as for the rear end, if i remember correctly, the four mounting positions, should pretty much line right up with the existing holes from the other rear. at least two of them line up perfectly square, so if the other two dont line up, then you can drill the holes out where they need to go. your gonna have to make a spacer for the rear end mounts so it sits level. i just made mine out of a chunk of steel with a hole drilled in it to space them out. put everything up in place before you start the welding so ypu make sure its going to work.

your gonna have to figure out what your gonna do with a fuel tank. the stock tank wont work cuz everything is in the way. the stock st205 tank will work if you can find one. i just bought a fuel cell, cut out the spare tire well, and fabbed up a recessed holder for the cell. it wotked out very nicely. you could barely even tell there was a fuel cell in the back. the carpet covered it right up. the only thing you could see was the hose that i had coming from the filler. i just cut a hole in the middle of the carpet. MONEY!!

you gonna have to go with a custom exhaust. a real GT4 exhaust will not fit.

and as of right now, im having a serious brain lapse and cant think of anything else. if it hink of anything ill post up. hope that can be of some help to start you off.

[silverlude]

So, I'm trying to get our shopping list put together so we can start getting junk imported.

Off the top of my head I come up with needing the following items. Please feel free to reply with other items I am missing so we can come up with a complete list.

Front Clip: includes
-3sgte
-Turbo
-ECU
-4wd M/T
-TMIC
-other wiring harnesses, linkages & little bits
-front axles, hopefully driveshaft/rear axles

Parts for rear suspension/drive
-rear diff
-center support bearings front/rear
-rear cross member
-axle carriers

I am also looking for info on what, if anything needs to be changed on the strut rods and suspension arms 1+2

I also would like to know if anyone can tell me how much of the above listed items are usable from the 5th gen All-trac.

Thanks 6GC community.

[silverlude]

hey i got your PM and figured i would give you some help.

first off, definatley look for a front clip. its the best way to go when your going to do such a major swap. finding all the odds and ends you need can really be a pain. the clip that i got, came with everything that i would imagine that i needed and then some. it cost about $4500 including shipping, but it was well worth it. i got it from this place called NAD auto out of Georgia. it came with, motor, tranny, drive shaft, rear diff, all the suspension, etc.

i would recomend that you do all of your research prior to taking the car apart so you know what your getting into. also, the wiring is pretty much what takes the longest, so if you can get that done first, it would be a big help.

as for the one that i completed, i swapped just about everything from the front clip into my car (besides the climate control.) therefor, the ECU wiring, and wiring under both fenders had to be lengthened. the fender wiring was the pain part. seeing as how its right hand drive, both sides had to switched. i just criss crossed them under the dash. some wirirng under the hood is going to need to be lengthened also.

the mototr itself was out and the new one in within a weekend and was fairly simple. MAKE SURE YOU CHANGE THE CLUTCH BEFORE PUTTING THE MOTOR IN. that was a stupid move on my part, cuz the motor had to come back out cuz the clutch was smoked.

the tunnel for the driveshaft already exists, on the cars so that is realatively easy cuz it runs right down where the exhuast goes. your just gonna have to make templets to figure out where the drive shaft brackets need to go. i think there is about two or three of them????? sorry its been a while. weld up the brackets out of sheet metal (doesnt have to be real thick sheet metal if you make them correctly.) once they are all made and placed up where they need to go, and fit....... then weld them up in place and seam seal them so they dont rust.

as for the rear end, if i remember correctly, the four mounting positions, should pretty much line right up with the existing holes from the other rear. at least two of them line up perfectly square, so if the other two dont line up, then you can drill the holes out where they need to go. your gonna have to make a spacer for the rear end mounts so it sits level. i just made mine out of a chunk of steel with a hole drilled in it to space them out. put everything up in place before you start the welding so ypu make sure its going to work.

your gonna have to figure out what your gonna do with a fuel tank. the stock tank wont work cuz everything is in the way. the stock st205 tank will work if you can find one. i just bought a fuel cell, cut out the spare tire well, and fabbed up a recessed holder for the cell. it wotked out very nicely. you could barely even tell there was a fuel cell in the back. the carpet covered it right up. the only thing you could see was the hose that i had coming from the filler. i just cut a hole in the middle of the carpet. MONEY!!

you gonna have to go with a custom exhaust. a real GT4 exhaust will not fit.

and as of right now, im having a serious brain lapse and cant think of anything else. if it hink of anything ill post up. hope that can be of some help to start you off.

Thanks tons!

I was planning on just going with a fuel cell because of the diff, and also doing a custom exhaust. You make it sound so easy getting everything done.

Thanks for the heads up on the clutch. I read your for sale post and mentioned that it was slipping. That blows.

Out of curiosity, how ling did she take you to complete?

[celiman05]

ha i just remebered something else. if you plan on using the st205 brakes, which you probably will, good luck finding rims to fit over the massive front calipers. i went through 3 sets before i found a set that fit.

if your gonna use the TMIC, your gonna need the 205 hood also, or a different hood with some kind of scoop in it.

if you get a complete drive shaft it should come with all the center bearings, if not then your gonna need to find them. first thing is i would try to find a clip with the complete rear end and drive shaft. otherwise your gonna be spending an awful lot of time finding all this stuff.

if you dont have a decent amount of money saved up, i wouldnt try this swap. all the little things add up like crazy.

if your not completely dedicated to the car and swap, then i wouldnt do it either. any parts that may break, or if you wanna upgrade, your gonna spend an arm and a leg for any parts. they all have to come from the UK or Japan and that gets very expensive. its worth it but it does get way too expensive. for me at least.

it really only took probably about 3 months or so only working on it on weekends and the ocasional day off or vaca.

dont be fooled, its not a really easy swap at all. your gonna rack your brain so much its not even funny.

[silverlude]

We're getting pretty stoked to get this going.

We are prepared for about $7-9k to get her going and then a perpetual fund to keep her moving.

I can imagine finding all the little parts would be a bit tricky. I'll have to make friends with some people in the UK pretty quick.

We're seriously not expecting to be done within 6 months at best. if it takes a couple years, we're on board.

We've been discussing it for the last 2 years, and finally have the OK from the wifes, and the money for upfront costs.

While I'm thinking of it... did you have to change anything on the rear strut bars or suspension arms, or did they hook right up to the axle carriers from the GT4?

Thanks again for your help.

[x_itchy_b_x]

this is some great info! im cant wait for awd swaps to be common knowledge on this board. call me a dreamer.

[lagos]

good info. having at least 2 of the 4 mounting points in the rear line up is a huge bonus. post anything else you can think of about the project.

[silverlude]

I've been looking for a good front clip for the last few hours, and found the thread with links to a bunch of companies... but it looks like none of them come with any of the drive line or diff...

I have emailed a few of them and will see what they say, but I was wondering if anybody knows for sure a place that has the rear pieces I will need included in the clip, or at least available.

[goferris]

do you already have the celi to work with? if not there was one for sale on KSL for like 4,300
Celi FS
as for extra rear end parts people have them for sale all the time. if you can't find a clip that comes with them just post up a WTB thread in the Buy/Sell forum
it shouldn't be too hard to find.
I'm excited to see this. that is one of my dreams to own a GT4 but i just don't have the funding to support that dream lol.

[silverlude]

That's a nice looking Celica on KSL. We do have one to work on already. My bro picked it up off his parents' neighbor a couple years ago with like 75k miles for super cheap.

We're just pricing out clips right now ready to pull the trigger when we find the one we want.

For all those interested - I'm sure we'll be keeping a log of our progress once we get started. It's going to be a slow road, but well worth it in the end I'm sure.

If anyone has seen a good deal on a clip I'd love to check it out.

[silverlude]

Posting a reply to a PM from celiman05. I asked what benefits there were in getting a full clip instead of an engine package from an importer that comes with the ECU, tranny and drive line. This is his reply:

"well honestly. i used pretty much the entire clip. i started off with an ST so pretty much nothing stock on my car would work. also i didnt want to chance it with the huge power difference. u might be able to use some of the stock parts in your car but.......who knows if everything will work correctly. stuff like the brake master cyl. and all the firewall components. if you plan on using the 205 brake setup, your gonna want all the brake components. things like ABS (if your car doesnt have it), a bunch of coolers in the front for the tranny, oil, and for the water to air intercooler. not to mention all the random hoses and whatever else the st205 has and the GT doesnt. the W2A intercooler is quite the system and there is alot involved in that.

the steering rack was another story. i used the stock ST rack, flipped it and rerouted the lines. that seemed to work out ok. also had to make brackets for it to fit right."

Good point on the ABS, which our car doesn't have. Also the oil coolers and all other hoses would be pretty hard to track down I imagine.

If anyone runs across a clip that you think would work I would like a PM on it.

Thanks again to the 6GC community. This thread is turning into exactly what I wanted - just good info on a conversion.

[GottaGoTurbo]

A guy just finished a full conversion on www.gt4oc.co.uk
Lots of pictures and I am certain he will share all his knowledge with you.
Parts are quite easy to come by in the UK, engines, diffs, gearboxes.
I am sure i can get someone to put a pallet together for you, if you know the shipping route.
I have a GT2, ST202 with gt four engine, front mount, superstrut etc, it was previously an SSII, I hear these are an easier starting base.
I also have a ST205 and a WRC.


Good luck with the AWD conversion.

[RocketScott]

This may be a bit off topic but is anyone able to get a roof cut car instead of just the front clip. I believe that just by cutting the roof off it can be imported as parts in stead of being considered a complete car.

I may be full of crap but I thought I remembered reading about that when I looked into doing this same project a year ago. It would be a lot easier to swap parts if you had the complete lower half of the car.

[stephen_lee]

I'm thinking about this conversion also. but instead of "bolting up" the awd parts to the celica, I plan on getting a rear cut of the car and cutting alonng the factory welds and welding that rear half of the GT4 to the USDM celica.. probably easier and SAFER in the long run. The drive train is a very sensitive thing to toy around with.

[goferris]

I'm thinking about this conversion also. but instead of "bolting up" the awd parts to the celica, I plan on getting a rear cut of the car and cutting alonng the factory welds and welding that rear half of the GT4 to the USDM celica.. probably easier and SAFER in the long run. The drive train is a very sensitive thing to toy around with.

cutting out the factory welds isn't the safest thing either.