3SGE vs 3SGTE Options

[dabazied]

Now I have read a lot of the issues and debates over swaps here. Yet, there is always one thing that comes up in convo that doesn't get cleared up(for me at least) and kind of side tracks to something else. So, I'd like to know what you guys think.

What has more potential for power/torque? A 3SGE with upgrade to LC and add a turbo, or a 3SGTE with an upgrade to the stock turbo? Next, which one in this situation do you think would be the most reliable? I am still in my "homework" stage for a swap but want to know what you guys think on this first because these are 2 of the 4 options I am looking into, and who better to ask then the people that have these setups.

[Supersprynt]

Huh?

Putting low compression pistons in a 3SGE and then putting on a turbo is essentially making a 3SGTE, so it would be utterly pointless.

Then, how do you upgrade to the stock turbo on a turbo motor...



If you want a turbo 3S motor, get the 3SGTE.

I feel like your asking whether or not it's more reliable to buy IKEA furniture pre-assembled or build it yourself.

[dabazied]

If you start with the 3SGE(some models) you'll also have the VVTI. Also, the 3SGTE has aluminum pistons, right? Meaning you don't really want to push up to a bigger turbo for fear that there will be issues with weak-ish internals, right? I was also under the impression that the 3SGTE has kind of a little turbo, which would be better if it was upgraded, throw on all the quality piping and a bov. This is just some of the things I've gathered/inferred from what i've read, yet I may be wrong(would be nice to know whether I am wrong or whatever lol)

[Supersprynt]

Well if your going to do a BEAMS swap, more power to you. It's considerably more expensive, and harder.

No, your not going to get stronger pistons in a 3SGE over a 3SGTE. There are alot of people running good power on stock bottom ends. The pistons aren't a straight aluminum, but an alloy; and the material is the same in both motors.

If you want a bigger turbo, the motor can handle it as long as you upgrade the necessary supporting mods.

If your looking at a comparison between a 3SGTE, say 3rd Gen, and a Beams swap w/turbo, I would probably pick the GTE because it will be cheaper, easier to swap, and have more potential in creating big power reliably.

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Jan 2, 2008 - 11:49 PM

[Punch]

well!!!
1st lets not be mean...

A 3sgte is the most common & ez'est way to go...
reason being if some thing break you can go get parts from any auto parts store , the 3sgte comes to the U.S. in a celica alltrac & mr-2 turbo.if you get a 3sge (2nd gen or 3rd) you can use most part from the 3sgte but alot of thing are not the same....

[Supersprynt]

Whose being mean? This forum is WAY to thin skinned.

[Supersprynt]

Also: you wouldn't want to break open a Beams motor and replace the pistons, the power comes from the higher compression, so you really would be destroying a good motor for something that's already been built, IMO.

[dabazied]

No one's being mean lol......

Ok, so more reliable for more gains with the GTE. Ok, so tearin up the beams is kind of a bad idea compared to just the GTE? Cause I was thinking you could have more gains and have a more reliable engine starting with the beams, throwin in some forged LC pistons, big(not necessarily big but nice sized but still decently quick spooling) turbo(and all accompanying upgrades). I have another question then.... Since the GTE is out of a regular toyota stock and isn't a "built" engine really, what is the need for all the add-ons(like a turbo timer((I get the idea behind it but if it's stock then what's the point?)) and other stuff)?

[Supersprynt]

I think the most important question is: What are your goals? What kind of power are you aiming for? How much money do you want to spend in this project?

The motor is designed for certain power parameters, and when, we; the power hungry, desire more power; we have to increase and modify the parts to allow for this.

The turbo timer isn't a necessary addition. Today's turbos & oils can handle the stresses, it's just a good idea to cool the motor down.

Have you ever been in a swapped Celica? You maybe happy with the stock 3SGTE, it's quite the increase in power.

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Jan 3, 2008 - 12:17 AM

[dabazied]

Money, meh, not that big of an issue, it's a project/hobby it's supposed to be expensive lol..... I am looking for about 300-350hp @ the wheels with a decent amount of torque but having sufficient internals and mods to where I'm not having to "push" the engine to its max to reach these goals, therefore more reliability and less worry about having the engine bust to pieces cause I wanted to push the potential of the beast..... Eventually I'd also like for it to be pretty much bulletproof so I can add up some NO2 on it.

Nope, never been in a swapped celi but have been in some quick cars and love power and I'm not sure if 200-ish hp will feed the need. Yet, I don't want to switch from my baby to a different car, just want her faster. That is why in addition to these two variations of a swap I was looking into the v6 as well, but not too sure about it yet.

This post has been edited by dabazied: Jan 3, 2008 - 12:22 AM

[Supersprynt]

http://www.mrcontrols.com/primers/power.htm

I don't think you will have to upgrade the internals for that power, but you'll def. have to upgrade the cooling and fuel and turbo.

[dabazied]

Ok. Sweet. Thanks for the info. I knew it wasn't too hard to get that outta those motors, but didn't know how reliable they are to that point without the upgrades on the internals.

[Dr_Tweak]

One note about turboing a 3SGE, I think that the intake manifolds are superior to the 2nd gen 3SGTE, so that's one thing to consider. The 3rd and 4th gen 3SGTEs finally got their act together with the manifold though.

BTW Supersprynt: check the sig BUAHAH

-Doc

[Supersprynt]

[dabazied]

Sweet Dr. Tweak. LMFAO @ sig. It was funny in the post, yet when pulled out like that it's even more hilarious lol

[Dr_Tweak]

Heheh I'm glad you're a good sport

-Doc

[dabazied]

Always. Life's too short to get ticked off at every little thing. Plus, it's good to laugh at yourself or laugh with someone that has a great sense of sarcasm once in a while.

[Junior]

Would like to mention to the dreamers who want to have a Turbo VVTi motor. This was my dream at one point and the dream of many. The amount of boost you could run while still having VVTi engaged is so minimal. You would definately get more power out of a 3sgte. The cam overlap of a variable valve timed motor doesn't allow for high turbo boost. You may be albe to run a supercharger, but to be honest I never looked into a supercharger. My opinion would be to swap a 3sgte motor, upgrade your internals to strengten the bottow to allow for bigger boost if you heart desireds.