What gen 3SGE is this?, Please help Options

[Manos]

Hi all,

I've been at this before, so I beg for yuor patience.

I'm looking into buying this 3SGE engine for my ST:

(This is the only photo I have at the moment).
Could someone please be so kind as to identify what generation it is?
It is advertised as having 178hp (suggesting it is gen3, but by the looks of it I cannot verify it against the photos shown here:

Really easy to spot based on the intake manifold... and the BEAMS are super easy.

Gen 1


Gen 2


Gen 3


Gen 4


Gen 5

Also, I'm looking at what other parts I'll be needing for swapping it into my '95ST (with 7AFE motor), but cannot find anything straight forward about this issue.
Provided I get the entire engine + gearbox + harness + ECU, I think I'll also be needing new engine mounts, right? Will my axles (ST) do or will I need new ones?
Anything else?
(Yes, I have used both the search function on here and Google... )


Thanks a lot in advance for any insight, feedback and advice.
Manos

[KAOS]

Looks to be a 2nd gen. There are slight variations to the Celica and MR2 versions.

(Which is why none of your pictures match up exactly to the one in the ad)

As far as swapping into your car with the 7a, I would get all the engine mounts from a 5S, and the axels from a 5S too.

If you're getting all the other components, harness, ECU, etc - that should be all you need.

This post has been edited by KAOS: Sep 8, 2014 - 9:47 AM

[Manos]

Dear KAOS,

Many thanks for the quick - and very straight forward - response.
I've asked the seller to send me some additional photos and I hope to get them soon...
While on the phone I asked him and he insisted the engine came from a 6th gen celica, meaning it is the 3rd gen (with the 178 hp).
I'm confused. The price is right (and I'm in the correct mental state for the swap) but I'd prefer to know exactly what it is I'm buying...
I'll post more photos as (and if) I get them.

By the way, the 5S versions never came around here (tax reasons), so I guess it will either be my own (ST) axles, mounts etc or whatever I get with the engine.

Thanks again

Manos

[richee3]

The ST mounts and axles will not work with a 3S.

[KAOS]

Dear KAOS,

Many thanks for the quick - and very straight forward - response.
I've asked the seller to send me some additional photos and I hope to get them soon...
While on the phone I asked him and he insisted the engine came from a 6th gen celica, meaning it is the 3rd gen (with the 178 hp).
I'm confused. The price is right (and I'm in the correct mental state for the swap) but I'd prefer to know exactly what it is I'm buying...
I'll post more photos as (and if) I get them.

By the way, the 5S versions never came around here (tax reasons), so I guess it will either be my own (ST) axles, mounts etc or whatever I get with the engine.

Thanks again

Manos

I think the seller is misleading you. That engine doesn't look anything like a 3rd Gen 3SGE - it has a different looking ACIS plenum above the intake manifold. (more along the lines of the 2nd Gen 3SGE's)

Here is what my 3rd Gen 3SGE looks like:



Notice the plenum (red) above the spark plug wires? That's missing from the picture in the ad! So unless the picture the seller posted in the ad was from BEFORE he did the swap, that is not the 178HP 3SGE.

This post has been edited by KAOS: Sep 8, 2014 - 11:08 AM

[mi645]

thats not a 3d gen thats a 2nd gen, ans a fifth gen celixa which did come with 2nd gen 3s

[Rusty]

When you're going from an A series to a S series engine you have to do some work for the drivers engine mount (or passengers for LHD) to work


I've read that a Rav4 mount works without any modification. Something to read further into if you're swapping engines.




See if you can get any other photos

[Smaay]

like everyone on here has already said, its a lot of work to install a S series engine in the ST. Depending on your budget, Id look into a V6 swap. you will be much more happier.

[Manos]

Thank you all for your feedback.

Depending on your budget, Id look into a V6 swap. you will be much more happier.

Probably true, but V6's are not available over here...
So, it's either 3SGTE (over and above my budget) or 3SGE

Manos

[njccmd2002]

Beams?

[Manos]

Beams?

Beams, yes. In fact I've found one at a very good price (engines over, say, 1.6 - 1.8lt are not selling well due to taxation - and we have a serious recession over here... - hence the low price). I haven't seen it up close or photos. It is being sold by a used spares shop who claims it is in very good condition. They wouldn't lie (not very much anyway) easily as they need their reputation so...
Trouble is the seller only sells the engine + ECU plus the gearbox. No harness, no axles, radiators, exhaust etc.
Independent sources (local "gurus") claim that axles and even the harness can be used (or be made to work) from any other 2.0lt Celica, however this sounds to me like an old wife's tale.

The Beams however would be a litle too exotic, meaning its maintenance and any repairs' costs I'd anticipate would be higher than the more sedate 3SGEs
I still believe the 178hp version would be best for my needs - if I can find one at a price I can pay...

[richee3]

The harness is very different from the other 3S's. With several hours of work spent studying wiring diagrams, replacing every single plug on the harness, and adding a lot of new wiring it would work, but at that point it's easiest to either source a harness or build a new one from scratch.

The Beams however would be a litle too exotic, meaning its maintenance and any repairs' costs I'd anticipate would be higher than the more sedate 3SGEs

Why? VVT-i isn't voodoo. It still uses all the same parts that any other engine uses. Throttle position sensor, thermostat, coil pack, oil filter is the same as a 5S, timing belt, all of these parts cost the same as they would for any other Toyota engine, because virtually all of them were used on other engines.

Edit: Not trying to change your mind on the swap or convince you to go BEAMS. I'm just dispelling the myth that the BEAMS is vastly different than the 3rd gen and somehow much more expensive to own than any other engine.

[Manos]

Thank you all for the feedback. It means a lot to me that you took the time and effort to assist me.

On the engine front, and as I still haven't found what I'm looking for I've upped the ante a little:
I'm in talks with a guy who is selling a 4th gen celica (the first front-wheel-drive) fitted with a 1997 JDM MR2 3SGTE stock engine and gearbox. The only mod is a front mount intercooler. Other than that it is completely stock and I get the entire, complete, running car. He claims 260hp and limited slip diff, both of which I really like (although I find the 260hp figure a little optimistic - but still more than adequate).
Boys with toys...

Do you think this setup will work? I mean, the previous owners must have done all the work (MR2 to fwd celica) already and it will be a FWD to FWD conversion. I'd anticipate 4th and 6th gen celicas not to be that different (if at all ?).

Will this be a straight forward transplant?
(Should I start a separate thread for this?)

This is the engine:


(I did think of keeping the 4th gen as it is, but the car is de-registered permanently so can only be sold as parts.)

Thanks
Manos