rebuilding a 5sfe to handle boost, good or bad idea?, for those who say a swap would be easier... ur right. but this is also Options

[3sgteLuke]

hey guys,

in the last couple of years ive become really serious about working on cars (so much so that im majoring in ME) and now im planning on getting an engine rebuild under my belt. I work for advance auto and the CNC company my dad oversees is also my disposal; so theres no problems as far a recources go. with that said, my plan is to find a used 5sfe and rebuild it with high strength internals and optimizing it to efficiently flow boost. IE: I want build up a 5sfe so i can turn it into a reliable 5sfte before i drop it into my car. Now BEFORE you start telling me im an idiot read my reasons:


1. a swap is technically waaay over my head and means too much down time for my daily driver ( i figure you should be able to rebuild an engine with your eyes closed before you do a swap anyway)
2. You say:" if a swap if waay over your head then forget about an engine rebuild" I say: "**** you, and mention that with the rebuild i can take all the time i want and make as many mistakes as i need because my celi will still be drivable"
3. an engine rebuild is next on my list of learning so why not take the opportunity to build a high strength drop in for my car?
4. Even if I wanted to tackle a swap, tracking down a viable clip for a reasonable amount of cash is starting to get difficult ( jarco not importing and all...) yes I know it can be done. no i dont want to do it.
5. Im sure everyone here knows that with a swap you have to do it right the first time. i dont want to make learning mistakes on my celica. If i mess up an engine rebuild. no big deal. 5sfe's are a dime a dozen compared to 3s's
6. an engine rebuild is more forgiving because at least its a well documented process that i can follow step by step as opposed to shooting in the dark with a 3s swap.
7. why not just turbo the 5s as it is and call it a day you ask? Its a matter or reliability. This is my only car... and as much as i like working on it, replacing an engine after ~20k of boost would piss me off. this stuff is $$
8.finally, I always wanted to turbocharge an NA motor. If I have a chance to do it reliably, Im taking it.

so there you have it. those are my reasons

NOW i want your opinions.

I know the 5s is not optimized for boost as far as internal flow dynamics go, but thats half the fun. being able to say my economic little 5s still keeps up with your stock 13.5 lb wrx, srt, oz, xyz, ect car

[stetsonaw]

i don't foresee any naysayers, as there are a lot of 5sfte celicas on here. LewFX being one of many.

[lagos]

The weak link of the 5sfe (besides the person building it) is the stock ecu and piggy backs people use, not the mechanical strength of the motor. So building up a stronger 5sfe really wont help you a whole lot.

[808celica]

i say go for it.
i was thinking about doing the same.
but now i just want a nice giddy up 5sfe. prolly drop a flywheel and do some internal replacement.

[njccmd2002]

some opinions here...

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=54696

[wrathc5525]

personally it is your car you should do what you want to it. but in my opinion i dont understand why people take a motor that is designed to be any economy, n.a. motor and boost it to me it dont make any sense. but like i said i dont own your car so do what you want to it

[3sgteLuke]

I liked the whole weak link reply. it was a subtle little stab at my abililities but a project like this will really give me alot of experience.

As far as engine management goes, im not planning on using my stock ecu together with a piggy back to compensate for compression. Instead I want to get a complete standalone unit that i would be able to learn fuel maps and ignition timing on. I know the theory behind those two processes but I also know theory is far off from actually doing it.

[goferris]

your plans and my plans are very much alike. with having the extra motor out of the car being worked on your car won't have hardly any downtime. also once the motor is built how you like it it will drop right in. no custom wiring harness or any other modifications will be needed since it is the exact same motor but with a nice turbo set up.
are you planning on swapping the tranny though? i would if i were you. the s54 (can't remember if that's the exact name) won't put down as much power as an e153 (once again not sure on the exact name) from either a solara or mr2t. if you can get your hands on the tranny that comes with the beams 3sge off an ssIII that would be your best bet.
gl on your project. i'm sure it will be a great learning experience

[CelicaGT04]

personally it is your car you should do what you want to it. but in my opinion i dont understand why people take a motor that is designed to be any economy, n.a. motor and boost it to me it dont make any sense. but like i said i dont own your car so do what you want to it

Well typically many people do not like the fact that the motor is built to be an "economy" motor, basically depriving our little jewels we call our celicas of highly WANTED sometimes needed HP...

Thats all really..

I liked the whole weak link reply. it was a subtle little stab at my abililities but a project like this will really give me alot of experience.

As far as engine management goes, im not planning on using my stock ecu together with a piggy back to compensate for compression. Instead I want to get a complete standalone unit that i would be able to learn fuel maps and ignition timing on. I know the theory behind those two processes but I also know theory is far off from actually doing it.

Sounds to me like you need emanage

[GriffGirl]

It sounds to me like an awesome learning experience and if I had the opportunity to do that, I'd do it too. Just basically have an extra engine around to learn from and make exactly how you want it within the confines of the engine itself... sounds like a damn good time to me! I say go for it, you'll probably be very glad you did and can apply what you learn to something bigger in the future!

[3sgteLuke]

Emanage it is! it was late and i couldnt remember the names of the management systems.

goferris you make a good point. what everyone is saying is that the stock 5s tranny ( dont remember the code either) is only good for about 200 hp. If im going to build up a strong motor like i plan, im going to be boosting more than that number. finding one is going to be tricky though. oh well, I wont worry about it until after my motor is finished >_>

thanks for everyones two cents, im going to inspect my friends 5s tomorrow, and if its up to par im going to make it my rebuild candidate.

[CelicaGT04]

Emanage it is! it was late and i couldnt remember the names of the management systems.

goferris you make a good point. what everyone is saying is that the stock 5s tranny ( dont remember the code either) is only good for about 200 hp. If im going to build up a strong motor like i plan, im going to be boosting more than that number. finding one is going to be tricky though. oh well, I wont worry about it until after my motor is finished >_>

thanks for everyones two cents, im going to inspect my friends 5s tomorrow, and if its up to par im going to make it my rebuild candidate.

The 5sfe tranny is a s54 (i believe) now although the e153 MR2 tranny is a adequate alternative. Many people have the misconception that the s54 transmission is good for on the peak of around 200 HP RELIABLY. That being said, we will not know the full potential of a s54 trans untill a NEW, unused transmission is used for a 5sfe turbo setup. Most people do not decide to turbo their 5sfe untill their mileage exceeds 100XXX, think how much abuse the tranny takes. Can also depend on the type of driver you are.

Well, it really sounds to me like you definitely need a way to get the power you want to the ground. Try a search on this site, and MR2OC.com you will find a plethora of information regarding transmissions, and which have worked best in the past for different set ups/drivers.

[3sgteLuke]

thanks for the tip. im always on the lookout for more sources to pool info from