Timming belt question, dont be cheap or this will happen to you Options

[NaderG]

I am getting my timing belt replaced along with all other belts on the car this weekend , at meineke and i wanted to know what should i look for after they are done and how to know that things werent done right, i bought the belts myself from toyota but i just dont trust these guys 100% lol, they pretty cheap which is suspicious. Also i know that the water pump should be replaced with the timing belt , but i will procrastinate on this one

This post has been edited by NaderG: Mar 18, 2008 - 11:03 PM

[Harold_Fastwaker]

water pump does not always need to be replaced.

With the belts you should be able to visually know they were changed to the ones you are giving them. As for the timing belt, well thats what the warranty is for. You should be fine though.

[Hanyo]

the timing belt itself is enclosed by some engine covers, so it would be pretty for you to inspect yourself after it has been installed.

You can ask specfically for them to keep the old parts for you, so you can confirm they did indeed install your timing belt.

how much are they charging to replace the belt? just get ready to fork over the same amount when your water pump goes.

[NaderG]

the timing belt itself is enclosed by some engine covers, so it would be pretty for you to inspect yourself after it has been installed.

You can ask specfically for them to keep the old parts for you, so you can confirm they did indeed install your timing belt.

how much are they charging to replace the belt? just get ready to fork over the same amount when your water pump goes.

they are charging me 90$ for labor, i know that timing belts are sensetive to tension ,i also know they like to whine a bit when they are new , what are symptoms of wrong tension , or a timing belt that has been installed wrong ?

[GriffGirl]

Don't procrastinate the water pump. It's just about as much labor to get it done as the timing belt, that's why people have them done at the same time. No, it may not need to be replaced yet, but it will, and when it does, it's gonna suck to pay for the labor twice. If your water pump is the original to your car, maybe you can throw it up on Craigslist or something for super cheap as a used, working water pump with XXX,000 miles on it.

[speedfeen]

we replaced the timing belt soon after we purcahsed the car cause it fried lol

the timing on it wasnt right at first....the car had a lack of power...you could tell...it would work like crap...so we fixed the timing by a few teeth and everything was fine...we didnt replace the water pump with it.


feen

[NaderG]

Water pump is fine , dont think i need to change it , and i am planning on selling the car within the next couple of month , have to do the timing belt though , because it starting to sequel and the idle is just horrible

[DEATH]

Water pump is fine , dont think i need to change it , and i am planning on selling the car within the next couple of month , have to do the timing belt though , because it starting to sequel and the idle is just horrible

Timing belts don't squel - the tensioner pulley can and you don't say you're replacing that. Timing belts have teeth so they don't slip like conventional v-belts. You may have a diff problem and this may not fix it.
$90 labor out the door with you providing the belts? That is waaaay cheap.

[NaderG]

well , i know that the belt havent been changed and i should change it anyways , tensioner pulley , interesting , i think i should get that done as well ...

[tigersvain]

if i was u i would really take a peak at the alternator belt , push it down and see if its got alot of play and check the under neath of it and see if its cracked alot or missing the v teeth at all...its quite possible all thats wrong is ur alternator belt is toast or just lose. which would be a hella lot cheaper to change, u need bascially only need two tools to do it lol

EDIT: although if u know for a fact ur timing belt has NEVER been changed and u have quite a few miles on the car then i would recommend changing it anyways...it doesnt damage anything when it goes...i know from experence but it does suck ur car just unexpectedly dieing at a street light and u gotta push it off the road and get it towed home lol

This post has been edited by tigersvain: Mar 13, 2008 - 6:20 PM

[NaderG]

if i was u i would really take a peak at the alternator belt , push it down and see if its got alot of play and check the under neath of it and see if its cracked alot or missing the v teeth at all...its quite possible all thats wrong is ur alternator belt is toast or just lose. which would be a hella lot cheaper to change, u need bascially only need two tools to do it lol

EDIT: although if u know for a fact ur timing belt has NEVER been changed and u have quite a few miles on the car then i would recommend changing it anyways...it doesnt damage anything when it goes...i know from experence but it does suck ur car just unexpectedly dieing at a street light and u gotta push it off the road and get it towed home lol

yes , i am changing the time belt , and ALL the other belts , i just dropped my car at the mechanic , i will be paying 140$ in labor , they quoted my 90 , but then they came back and said that it would take more labor than they thought. its still a good deal though.

and ofcourse they warranty their labor , so it should be pretty good

[tigersvain]

140 for labor isnt to bad i guess, it took me 3 hours to do mine in the garage, and i know the toyota dealer here charges 75 an hour so i'd say that sounds fair

[NaderG]

140 for labor isnt to bad i guess, it took me 3 hours to do mine in the garage, and i know the toyota dealer here charges 75 an hour so i'd say that sounds fair

Toyota dealer asked for 299$ for the timing belt change !!

[njccmd2002]

140 for labor isnt to bad i guess, it took me 3 hours to do mine in the garage, and i know the toyota dealer here charges 75 an hour so i'd say that sounds fair

Toyota dealer asked for 299$ for the timing belt change !!

they quoted me 500!!!!!!

[Harold_Fastwaker]

I paid $140 for my belt change. Final cost was $450 after having a partial motor rebuild done as well.

[NaderG]

**** !!! , i shouldnt have done it , the old belt was actually in pretty decent shape , the drive belts were awfull , but the timing belt was in very good shape ... well here is what is happeneing :

- engine has much less power
- engine has what sounds like an extra click ... i told them right away and they said it might be a lifter and has nothing to do with the belt job !??!?
- it running awful and sounds like a meat grinder from 2K-3K RPM ..
-i also tried to drive it a bit hard , so i full accelerated goin on the freeway , and the car felt like it was suffering



EDIT : timing is for sure off , i am guessing the moron who did the car didn't line up the two cams properly after he set the crank to TDC , maybe off by a couple of teeth which is causing the car to act funny .... now as far as i know , the 5sfe is a non interference engine , which means my valves are getting twisted , but that clicking sound is freaking me out , i will go back to the shop on Saturday and have them check and fix the timing , and if i have problems , i will try to go to some other mechanic , get it fixed , then sue them ... or something

lol , i dont think i will get any sleep till i go to the shop , i am really freaking out about this

This post has been edited by NaderG: Mar 13, 2008 - 11:29 PM

[Turbo_Toy_Madnes...]

**** !!! , i shouldnt have done it , the old belt was actually in pretty decent shape , the drive belts were awfull , but the timing belt was in very good shape ... well here is what is happeneing :

- engine has much less power
- engine has what sounds like an extra click ... i told them right away and they said it might be a lifter and has nothing to do with the belt job !??!?
- it running awful and sounds like a meat grinder from 2K-3K RPM ..
-i also tried to drive it a bit hard , so i full accelerated goin on the freeway , and the car felt like it was suffering



--> so what happened ???

Hi NaderG,
I'll try to help you to the best of my knowledge and skills here?! 1st: When changing a T Belt on S series (Manufacturer says 60k miles), Dealer Techs usually only change: T. Belt, Water Pump , Tensioner Pulley w/Tension Spring (little spring 2'' long attach to Tensioner Pulley back plate who presets tension on new belt when installing), they also inspect Idler Pulley for free wheeling,weird noises (bearing), end play and/or axial distortion . Second Time changing T. Belt (Manufacturer say about 120k miles),Dealer Techs will change:T. Belt,
Water Pump (second time;a water pump has a limited lifetime that's important to check up(shaft end play,bearing of pulley squealing,axial distortion of the pulley and most importantly a little orifice located often beneath the shaft of the pump which leave often debris (spill lines) of coolant most of the time cristallized redish pink coloured (Red Toyota's coolant spills when the bearing is tired and the inner seal can hold off the coolant in the W.P. housing) when this happens after a certain time,the pump will self-destrust (without letting notice since the shaft overheated and sliced in two but pulley still turning steady and freely without rotating impeller in the W.P. housing) and cause overheating if the engine is'nt turned off.(Happened to my friend GT hardtop '96 result of negligence OEM W.P. was never been changed at 176 XXX KMeters ). Back to the parts: (sorry wanted to close the loop on w.p. question ) Tensioner and spring again, this time Idler, Crankshaft Seal, Camshaft Seal, Oil pump Seal and finally The overall inspection for leaks (oil&coolant)
2nd: Possibles causes but hard to say without seeing and hearing;
-T. Belt shifted one teeth before aligned Cam & Crank T. Marks?!
-Bad Tension on T.Belt (bet they binded it too much;Some Mechs don't know the correct procedure for binding T.Belt on Toys until informed).
-Forget the lifter thing bad excuse for bad timing job since there were no such noises before went in the shop!(sometimes better off with costier labor then cheap unexperienced wannabes who pretend knowing, no disregards friend )
Finally I'll wrap up with specs:Easiest way to don't mess up and make sure T. Belt job perfect goes like this;
after everything in place (T. Marks A-1 and other components torqued) bind the little spring of the tensioner,slightly fasten the tensioner pulley bolt in place,Do at least one OttO cycle (4-stroke cycle which involves 720 degrees at the crankshaft with a ratchet and box),Verify if the Timing Marks will still perfectly align the Cam Mark and the 0 Mark at the Crank, if OK you're tension is theoricaly setted but I always untighting the tesioner pulley bolt keeping the same pressure on it, to give an extra 32th or 16th of a inch linearly in the slot tensioning the belt for the extra tension to set down and finally torque the tensioner pulley bolt.(because a new belt always stretches a bit with time and heat and sets up in the little bit worned Cam&Crank pulleys teeths; personal finition )
Hope this helps even if it's highly techs descriptive?!
(Father's 3S-FE '97 Rav4 1st T.B. job done at 134 XXX KMeters runs like manufactured set)
(Mom's 4A-FE '97 Corolla 2nd T.B. job done at 202 XXX KMeters runs like a new engine)
(My Own 5S-FE GT 2nd T.B. job done at 206 XXX KMeters runned liked hell for 2&½ years even on drag strips and street racing until clutch lining scorched off one side because of faulty clucth master cylinder )
(Next my Bros 4A-FE '96 Corolla 2nd T.B. job)
(Then eventually my '94-'95 JDM 3S-GTE on a skid (what a wonderful place to work on a T.B. ) it's supposed to have between only 30 and 45 K Miles on it according to the Japaneses Importer Guys in Montreal shop ; so I won't take chances I'll do it like it was the second time to be done, because of the age of the components! (and also the beatings it will take after the swap's done!!!)

[NaderG]

**** !!! , i shouldnt have done it , the old belt was actually in pretty decent shape , the drive belts were awfull , but the timing belt was in very good shape ... well here is what is happeneing :

- engine has much less power
- engine has what sounds like an extra click ... i told them right away and they said it might be a lifter and has nothing to do with the belt job !??!?
- it running awful and sounds like a meat grinder from 2K-3K RPM ..
-i also tried to drive it a bit hard , so i full accelerated goin on the freeway , and the car felt like it was suffering



--> so what happened ???

Hi NaderG,
I'll try to help you to the best of my knowledge and skills here?! 1st: When changing a T Belt on S series (Manufacturer says 60k miles), Dealer Techs usually only change: T. Belt, Water Pump , Tensioner Pulley w/Tension Spring (little spring 2'' long attach to Tensioner Pulley back plate who presets tension on new belt when installing), they also inspect Idler Pulley for free wheeling,weird noises (bearing), end play and/or axial distortion . Second Time changing T. Belt (Manufacturer say about 120k miles),Dealer Techs will change:T. Belt,
Water Pump (second time;a water pump has a limited lifetime that's important to check up(shaft end play,bearing of pulley squealing,axial distortion of the pulley and most importantly a little orifice located often beneath the shaft of the pump which leave often debris (spill lines) of coolant most of the time cristallized redish pink coloured (Red Toyota's coolant spills when the bearing is tired and the inner seal can hold off the coolant in the W.P. housing) when this happens after a certain time,the pump will self-destrust (without letting notice since the shaft overheated and sliced in two but pulley still turning steady and freely without rotating impeller in the W.P. housing) and cause overheating if the engine is'nt turned off.(Happened to my friend GT hardtop '96 result of negligence OEM W.P. was never been changed at 176 XXX KMeters ). Back to the parts: (sorry wanted to close the loop on w.p. question ) Tensioner and spring again, this time Idler, Crankshaft Seal, Camshaft Seal, Oil pump Seal and finally The overall inspection for leaks (oil&coolant)
2nd: Possibles causes but hard to say without seeing and hearing;
-T. Belt shifted one teeth before aligned Cam & Crank T. Marks?!
-Bad Tension on T.Belt (bet they binded it too much;Some Mechs don't know the correct procedure for binding T.Belt on Toys until informed).
-Forget the lifter thing bad excuse for bad timing job since there were no such noises before went in the shop!(sometimes better off with costier labor then cheap unexperienced wannabes who pretend knowing, no disregards friend )
Finally I'll wrap up with specs:Easiest way to don't mess up and make sure T. Belt job perfect goes like this;
after everything in place (T. Marks A-1 and other components torqued) bind the little spring of the tensioner,slightly fasten the tensioner pulley bolt in place,Do at least one OttO cycle (4-stroke cycle which involves 720 degrees at the crankshaft with a ratchet and box),Verify if the Timing Marks will still perfectly align the Cam Mark and the 0 Mark at the Crank, if OK you're tension is theoricaly setted but I always untighting the tesioner pulley bolt keeping the same pressure on it, to give an extra 32th or 16th of a inch linearly in the slot tensioning the belt for the extra tension to set down and finally torque the tensioner pulley bolt.(because a new belt always stretches a bit with time and heat and sets up in the little bit worned Cam&Crank pulleys teeths; personal finition )
Hope this helps even if it's highly techs descriptive?!
(Father's 3S-FE '97 Rav4 1st T.B. job done at 134 XXX KMeters runs like manufactured set)
(Mom's 4A-FE '97 Corolla 2nd T.B. job done at 202 XXX KMeters runs like a new engine)
(My Own 5S-FE GT 2nd T.B. job done at 206 XXX KMeters runned liked hell for 2&½ years even on drag strips and street racing until clutch lining scorched off one side because of faulty clucth master cylinder )
(Next my Bros 4A-FE '96 Corolla 2nd T.B. job)
(Then eventually my '94-'95 JDM 3S-GTE on a skid (what a wonderful place to work on a T.B. ) it's supposed to have between only 30 and 45 K Miles on it according to the Japaneses Importer Guys in Montreal shop ; so I won't take chances I'll do it like it was the second time to be done, because of the age of the components! (and also the beatings it will take after the swap's done!!!)

I am guessing the mechanics that changed my belt didn't know anything about what u just told me , and i am also guessing they wont be able to fix the problem , that is if they admit there is a problem in the first place ..... so what to do now ? should i just swallow the 140$ and go to the Toyota dealership and have them do it ?? and of course kiss goodbye a couple of months savings along with it , i really don't know what to do .. i dont have enough experience or tools for that matter to correct the problem myself , i cant really afford going to Toyota , and i don't think the mechanic will be able to fix it

oh- and when they had the car on the jack , i looked under and noticed a leak on the transmission ( between the engine and the transmission , and they told me that is possibly the rear main seal going

[Turbo_Toy_Madnes...]

**** !!! , i shouldnt have done it , the old belt was actually in pretty decent shape , the drive belts were awfull , but the timing belt was in very good shape ... well here is what is happeneing :

- engine has much less power
- engine has what sounds like an extra click ... i told them right away and they said it might be a lifter and has nothing to do with the belt job !??!?
- it running awful and sounds like a meat grinder from 2K-3K RPM ..
-i also tried to drive it a bit hard , so i full accelerated goin on the freeway , and the car felt like it was suffering



--> so what happened ???

Hi NaderG,
I'll try to help you to the best of my knowledge and skills here?! 1st: When changing a T Belt on S series (Manufacturer says 60k miles), Dealer Techs usually only change: T. Belt, Water Pump , Tensioner Pulley w/Tension Spring (little spring 2'' long attach to Tensioner Pulley back plate who presets tension on new belt when installing), they also inspect Idler Pulley for free wheeling,weird noises (bearing), end play and/or axial distortion . Second Time changing T. Belt (Manufacturer say about 120k miles),Dealer Techs will change:T. Belt,
Water Pump (second time;a water pump has a limited lifetime that's important to check up(shaft end play,bearing of pulley squealing,axial distortion of the pulley and most importantly a little orifice located often beneath the shaft of the pump which leave often debris (spill lines) of coolant most of the time cristallized redish pink coloured (Red Toyota's coolant spills when the bearing is tired and the inner seal can hold off the coolant in the W.P. housing) when this happens after a certain time,the pump will self-destrust (without letting notice since the shaft overheated and sliced in two but pulley still turning steady and freely without rotating impeller in the W.P. housing) and cause overheating if the engine is'nt turned off.(Happened to my friend GT hardtop '96 result of negligence OEM W.P. was never been changed at 176 XXX KMeters ). Back to the parts: (sorry wanted to close the loop on w.p. question ) Tensioner and spring again, this time Idler, Crankshaft Seal, Camshaft Seal, Oil pump Seal and finally The overall inspection for leaks (oil&coolant)
2nd: Possibles causes but hard to say without seeing and hearing;
-T. Belt shifted one teeth before aligned Cam & Crank T. Marks?!
-Bad Tension on T.Belt (bet they binded it too much;Some Mechs don't know the correct procedure for binding T.Belt on Toys until informed).
-Forget the lifter thing bad excuse for bad timing job since there were no such noises before went in the shop!(sometimes better off with costier labor then cheap unexperienced wannabes who pretend knowing, no disregards friend )
Finally I'll wrap up with specs:Easiest way to don't mess up and make sure T. Belt job perfect goes like this;
after everything in place (T. Marks A-1 and other components torqued) bind the little spring of the tensioner,slightly fasten the tensioner pulley bolt in place,Do at least one OttO cycle (4-stroke cycle which involves 720 degrees at the crankshaft with a ratchet and box),Verify if the Timing Marks will still perfectly align the Cam Mark and the 0 Mark at the Crank, if OK you're tension is theoricaly setted but I always untighting the tesioner pulley bolt keeping the same pressure on it, to give an extra 32th or 16th of a inch linearly in the slot tensioning the belt for the extra tension to set down and finally torque the tensioner pulley bolt.(because a new belt always stretches a bit with time and heat and sets up in the little bit worned Cam&Crank pulleys teeths; personal finition )
Hope this helps even if it's highly techs descriptive?!
(Father's 3S-FE '97 Rav4 1st T.B. job done at 134 XXX KMeters runs like manufactured set)
(Mom's 4A-FE '97 Corolla 2nd T.B. job done at 202 XXX KMeters runs like a new engine)
(My Own 5S-FE GT 2nd T.B. job done at 206 XXX KMeters runned liked hell for 2&½ years even on drag strips and street racing until clutch lining scorched off one side because of faulty clucth master cylinder )
(Next my Bros 4A-FE '96 Corolla 2nd T.B. job)
(Then eventually my '94-'95 JDM 3S-GTE on a skid (what a wonderful place to work on a T.B. ) it's supposed to have between only 30 and 45 K Miles on it according to the Japaneses Importer Guys in Montreal shop ; so I won't take chances I'll do it like it was the second time to be done, because of the age of the components! (and also the beatings it will take after the swap's done!!!)

I am guessing the mechanics that changed my belt didn't know anything about what u just told me , and i am also guessing they wont be able to fix the problem , that is if they admit there is a problem in the first place ..... so what to do now ? should i just swallow the 140$ and go to the Toyota dealership and have them do it ?? and of course kiss goodbye a couple of months savings along with it , i really don't know what to do .. i dont have enough experience or tools for that matter to correct the problem myself , i cant really afford going to Toyota , and i don't think the mechanic will be able to fix it

oh- and when they had the car on the jack , i looked under and noticed a leak on the transmission ( between the engine and the transmission , and they told me that is possibly the rear main seal going

-Rear Crankshaft seal is'nt a problem unless it's leaking a lot leaving oil spot's everywhere you go and/or making slip the clucth unvoluntaraly (a lot like when you were learning to drive stick shift ) from the oil absorbed in clutch lining making it slip and glaze/blue(ish) your friction surface on either one or both flywheel and pressure plate.
-try finding a TOY specialist around town or at least a Japan import specialist who won't charge you your pink slips to fix LoL (no need to go to the dealer !)
Cause probably the mech where you first started out this legacy won't admit fault or will try to fix up error
by probably worsting things up and charging labor anyways(I guess so??)

[NaderG]

there goes my money ... i guess i should blame myself for being cheap