What makes a sports car? Options

[devilsden97]

Discussion on what makes a sports car, and why. What comes close but doesnt make the cut?

Supersprynts list: (based on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_car)

Nissan 350Z
Toyota Supra
Chevy Camaro
Chevy Corvette
BMW M3
Mazda RX8
Honda S2000

Others:
Toyota Celica
Mitsubishi Evo
Subaru STI
Nissan Maxima (lol)
Acura Integra Type-R
Honda Del Sol

[Supersprynt]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_car

Your wikipedia link doesn't work.

A car may be a sporting automobile without being a sports car. Performance modifications of regular, production cars, such as sport compacts, sports sedans, muscle cars, hot hatches and the like, generally are not considered sports cars, yet share traits common to sports cars.

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Sep 9, 2008 - 9:30 AM

[devilsden97]

^with that being posted. were talking FROM the FACTORY.

unmodified.

[spolski07]

Celica nor Integra are not sports cars. They maybe trying, but they aren't real sports cars.

A sports car is a term used to describe a class of automobile. The exact definition varies, [1] but generally it is used to refer to a low to ground, light weight vehicle with a powerful engine. Most vehicles referred to as sports cars are rear-wheel drive, have two seats, two doors, and are designed for more precise handling, acceleration, and aesthetics. A sports car's dominant considerations can be superior road handling, braking, maneuverability, low weight, and high power, rather than passenger space, comfort, and fuel economy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_car

When you have a 4cyl economy motor and FWD you are not a sports car. ITR has no torque, you'll have to get high up in the RPMs to see any power.

how is an ITR not a sports car? a F1 car has no torque either...hmm yet they have an entire racing series dedicated to them.
every cars powerband is different, the integra was built to be rev happy.
i am simply saying that almost every import magizine have called the itr a "show room racecar" due to the fact that it was built to be able to go onto a track and race then not have to be trailered home.

Nissan 350Z
Toyota Supra
Chevy Camaro
Chevy Corvette
BMW M3
Mazda RX8
Honda S2000

using what you quoted at wikipedia, these cars are not sports car due to their back seat.

This post has been edited by spolski07: Sep 9, 2008 - 9:41 AM

[D-Man]

Maxima is still an epic failure on the sports car list.

although the 00-03 had some HP... they still failed at weight. The new 09 has track times comparable to our celicas

This post has been edited by D-Man: Sep 9, 2008 - 9:46 AM

[devilsden97]

if you call the type-r rev happy....IIRC the s2k's redline is ~9k


This post has been edited by devilsden97: Sep 9, 2008 - 9:43 AM

[spolski07]

yet somehow the nissan is trying to market the 09maxima a "sports sedan"

"sports car" is a very general term.
lots of cars are designed to many different things
the evo and sti are designed for rally, and the last time i checked was a sport. so i consider them a sports car.
integra type r was built to be a DD that was able to go to the track and be competitive. another form of "sport"

[D-Man]

yet somehow the nissan is trying to market the 09maxima a "sports sedan"

lol!!

09' Maxima specs

• 0 - 60 mph: 5.5 sec.
• 0-60 mph with 1-ft Rollout: 5.2 sec.
• Skid Pad Lateral acceleration: 0.83 g
• 1/4 Mile: 14.7 sec. @ 96.9 mph (155.9 km/h)
• 60 - 0 mph: 128 feet (39 m)

[spolski07]

if you call the type-r rev happy....IIRC the s2k's redline is ~9k

the s2k's with the 2.0 is 9k revlimit but the current 2.2 is 8k rev limit.

here is what wikipedia has to say about the ITR's B18C5:

The Type R's B18C5 engine was not merely a tuned version of the GS-R's B18C1. Instead of utilizing a reworked version of the GS-R head Honda engineers chose to use the PR3 head found on the Civic Si's B16. This head compared to the B16's was tuned, polished and outfitted to make the most of the 1.8L high-reving engine. Molybdenum-coated, high compression pistons and stronger-but-lighter connecting rods strengthened the reciprocating assembly. Extra counterweighting on the crankshaft altered its vibration modes to enhance durability at high RPM. The intake valves were reshaped with a thinner stem and crown that reduced weight and improved flow. The intake ports were given a minor port and polish. Stiffer valve springs resisted float on more aggressive camshafts. Intake air was now drawn from inside the fender well, for a colder, denser charge. That intake fed a short-runner intake manifold with a larger throttle body for better breathing. An improved stainless steel exhaust collector with more gentle merge angles, a change to a larger, consistent piping diameter, flared internal piping in the muffler allowed easier exit of gases. A retuned engine computer also contributed to improved power output, which allowed the Type R to accelerate from 0 to 60 mph (100 km/h) in 6.2 seconds(as apposed to the gs-r's 7.0).

The transmission was upgraded with lower and closer gear ratios in second through fifth gears, in order to take advantage of the additional rev range. The North American version retained the same 4.4 final drive throughout the Type R's production run, unlike the Japanese version, which in 1998 changed to a 4.785 final drive along with revised gearing. The Type R's open differential was replaced with a torque-sensing limited slip type.

The chassis received enhancements in the form of reinforcements to the rear wheel wells, roof rail, and other key areas. "Performance rods", chassis braces that were bolted in place, were added to the rear trunk wall and subframe. The front strut tower bar was replaced with a stronger aluminum piece, and the R also received the addition of a rear strut tower bar. Camber rigidity was improved at the rear by increasing wheel bearing span by 10 mm. The Type R's body also received a new functional rear spoiler, body-colored rocker panels and front lip, and 5-bolt hubs with special lightweight Type-R wheels. Under those wheels was a much larger set of disc brakes, front and back. The tires were upgraded to Bridgestone RE010 "summer" tires.

The Type R received very aggressive tuning in its suspension settings. All soft rubber bushings were replaced with much stiffer versions, as much as 5.3 times higher in durometer readings. The springs and dampers were much stiffer, with a 10 mm (0.4 in) reduction in ride height. The rear anti-roll bar diameter was increased to 22 mm (0.9 in) in diameter. The front anti-roll bar retained the same size, although the end links were changed to a more responsive sealed ball joint as opposed to a rubber bushing on the lesser models. The result was a chassis with very responsive, racetrack-ready handling that ably absorbed mid-corner bumps. Mild oversteer was easy to induce with a lift of the throttle, and during steady-state cornering the car maintained a slight tail-out stance.

The interior was stripped down to reduce weight. The air conditioning system was removed in early models and nearly all the sound-dampening material was eliminated. This provided for a much noisier ride, but since the Type-R was marketed as a race car for the street, most owners didn't mind. The seats were also unique to the Type-R. Standard were weight saving Recaro racing seats

[playr158]

ITR fails cause its FWD.

also ITR isn't wise to be compared to an F1 car which still makes more torque and revs up to 20,000 RPM.

sports car = RWD

and FYI some 2 door sports car Porsches come with "back seats" which are little black pads in the rear for insurance reasons

ITR, celica, integras, civics = sport compact...

sport compact does not = sports car

This post has been edited by playr158: Sep 9, 2008 - 10:04 AM

[devilsden97]

but since the Type-R was marketed as a race car for the street, most owners didn't mind. The seats were also unique to the Type-R. Standard were weight saving Recaro racing seats

just because its marketed that way, doesnt mean it is one.


i think the evo and sti have some sports car cred considering they are both used in rally racing.

banging around your home track doesnt count as racing.... (nor does auto cross)



Toyota MR2? RWD 2 seater. power...(sorta)

This post has been edited by devilsden97: Sep 9, 2008 - 10:06 AM

[spolski07]

ITR fails cause its FWD.

also ITR isn't wise to be compared to an F1 car which still makes more torque and revs up to 20,000 RPM.

sports car = RWD

and FYI some 2 door sports car Porsches come with "back seats" which are little black pads in the rear for insurance reasons

is there a set of rules to be a sports car? is it set in stone somewhere?
you PERSONALLY may not think that the ITR is a sports car but i personally think it is as well as a few other FWD cars
like i posted eariler, "sports car" is a very general term due to the fact there is so many motor sports events out there. and each type of motorsport has cars built specifically for that sport, thus making them sports cars.

the ST205 wrc edition was made into a street going versions to that they could compete in rally. i think this makes the gt-four a sports car

the backseat thing i also believe is a joke, but was proving a point

[playr158]

but since the Type-R was marketed as a race car for the street, most owners didn't mind. The seats were also unique to the Type-R. Standard were weight saving Recaro racing seats

just because its marketed that way, doesnt mean it is one.


i think the evo and sti have some sports car cred considering they are both used in rally racing.

banging around your home track doesnt count as racing.... (nor does auto cross)



Toyota MR2? RWD 2 seater. power...(sorta)

autocross definitely = racing..you'd be surprised at how much you can learn and compete in that type of racing.
track days don't really = racing though, those are learning experiences



I can also rally race a ford focus....does that make it a sports car?
there is an entire group of "Pruis racing" does that mean a Pruis is a sports car


This post has been edited by playr158: Sep 9, 2008 - 10:11 AM

[devilsden97]

dan you of all people know the m3 (any version) has a full back seat (as full as the celica at least)

[spolski07]

edit: dan beat me to it. about the autox thing




This post has been edited by spolski07: Sep 9, 2008 - 10:15 AM

[devilsden97]

but since the Type-R was marketed as a race car for the street, most owners didn't mind. The seats were also unique to the Type-R. Standard were weight saving Recaro racing seats

just because its marketed that way, doesnt mean it is one.


i think the evo and sti have some sports car cred considering they are both used in rally racing.

banging around your home track doesnt count as racing.... (nor does auto cross)

autocross definitely = racing..you'd be surprised at how much you can learn and compete in that type of racing.
track days don't really = racing though, those are learning experiences

my point by saying auto cross, because that type of racing EVENS the field big time. you see celica st's throwing down better times then z06 vetts....95% of autocross is driver ability. Hense....sports car need not apply

edit:
dan:
I can also rally race a ford focus....does that make it a sports car?
there is an entire group of "Pruis racing" does that mean a Pruis is a sports car

yes... ford focus cosworth rs....awd turbo...same platform as the sti/evo

i demand photos of prius racing!


This post has been edited by devilsden97: Sep 9, 2008 - 10:13 AM

[playr158]

but since the Type-R was marketed as a race car for the street, most owners didn't mind. The seats were also unique to the Type-R. Standard were weight saving Recaro racing seats

just because its marketed that way, doesnt mean it is one.


i think the evo and sti have some sports car cred considering they are both used in rally racing.

banging around your home track doesnt count as racing.... (nor does auto cross)

autocross definitely = racing..you'd be surprised at how much you can learn and compete in that type of racing.
track days don't really = racing though, those are learning experiences

my point by saying auto cross, because that type of racing EVENS the field big time. you see celica st's throwing down better times then z06 vetts....95% of autocross is driver ability. Hense....sports car need not apply

you didn't say sports car.....you said RACING.

it in fact is racing no mater what kind of car you use.

and what was your point about an m3 having a back seat?


ALERT: SPORTS CAR PIC


This post has been edited by playr158: Sep 9, 2008 - 10:15 AM

[devilsden97]

m3 back seat point... idk.. i cant remember now.

lol at the prius.

and sorry about my miss wording.

im just playing devils advocate. i know the celica is not a "sports car" just like to see others opinions

edit: and there is nothign wrong with a healthy debate

This post has been edited by devilsden97: Sep 9, 2008 - 10:21 AM

[spolski07]

agreed, nothing wrong with a healthy debate
i also never said i like fwd over rwd. just the fact that i do believe that the DC2R and even the DC5R are sports cars in my opinion. but the term sports car has such a large grey area around it that its hard to really define what a sports car is these days

LOLZ at me and dan's convo

DONUTS FTW! (or doughnuts as dan calls themlol)

This post has been edited by spolski07: Sep 9, 2008 - 10:27 AM

[playr158]

DuBpLayR (11:23:07 AM): sports car or whatever is not a definite
SixthGC Junkie (11:23:14 AM): exactallymypoint
DuBpLayR (11:23:21 AM): its a large ass gray area funded by general guide lines
SixthGC Junkie (11:23:30 AM): exactally
DuBpLayR (11:23:33 AM): i only give my opinion
DuBpLayR (11:23:35 AM): and FWD failz
DuBpLayR (11:23:35 AM):
DuBpLayR (11:23:45 AM): no doughnuts not care!
SixthGC Junkie (11:23:47 AM): i never said i like fwd over rwd
DuBpLayR (11:23:52 AM): real sports cars do doughntus