air conditioner, recharge Options

[Sebotage]

so i didnt get a cute lil celica booklet with my car to tell me what kinda refrigerante this thing has, anyone care to fill me in on what to use? its a 98 incase that matters...

[D-Man]

IIRC the new refrigerant is R-134a, and you can buy it at you local auto store or walmart. You spray it into the low-pressure line of your ac.

[Akirad1]

is the 94-95 the same

[D-Man]

All cars 95 and lower, you have to drain the AC first, otherwise if the R134a and the freon mix, you wind up making this black, tarish crap, that just gunks everything up.

If you dont have the time, or experience to drain your own ac lines, nor the money to goto a shop, you can always buy R-12 substitute witch is a BS version of freon. It dosn't cool verry well, but it's better than nothing, and wont react with the freon deposits in your AC lines.

EDIT: you can use that untill you have to dough to goto the auto joint, and have a full on R134a conversion. It'll cool your car, dont get me wrong, but R134a is WAY better, and FREON is now illegal because it was so good (that and kids buying cans of it and huffing themselfs stupid and dead )

Also, R134a is the new standard now that Freon (R12) is illegal for sales for automotive application.

This post has been edited by D-Man: Aug 13, 2008 - 3:28 PM

[Akirad1]

thats good to know

[D-Man]

oh, my bad, you got a 95, sorry. Mine are converted. I forget that other people dont have them converted, or dont know how. My fault.

Yes, buy R-12 Substitute if you have a 95 or lower, unless your lines are converted. And if you dont know, than drain, dry, and refill with R134a.

[Akirad1]

thanks bro that helps alot seriuosly or however you spell it

[D-Man]

Sebotage - use R134a (96+)
Akirad1 - use R-12 substitute until you can drain, dry, and convert your lines to R134a. (1908-1995)

NOTE FOR YR 95 OR LESS: The R134a system uses different connectors than the freon/R12 system. If you cant plug it in, that means your not converted. it's a fail safe to keep you from shooting the wrong cold-juice into your car. You can buy the connectors to convert systems at wal*mart for like $5-$10, just make sure that you drain, and dry your lines first (applies to all cars made between the years of 1908-1995).

[Bitter]

1994 and later, all cars are R134a.

older cars are R12. R12 works better as a refrigerant than R134a, which is why when converting you add about 20% more R134a to the system than there was R12.

a fully charged and 100% working R12 system will cool as well as a full charged and 100% working R134a system. R12 systems use a different oil than R134a systems, as such many of the rubber Orings and seals are not compatible with the R134a oil. leaks are to be expected in a conversion where Orings are not replaced.

additionally, R12 hoses are permiable by R134a due to R12 molecules being larger than those of R134a. R134a hoses have a special barrier layer inside to keep the refrigerant in, R12 hoses do not have this layer because it was not needed due to the larger molecules. So no matter what, a converted system is going to loose some refrigerant over time, short of replacing all the rubber hoses as well, and rebuilding the compressor with R134a compatible seals, and changing out all of the Orings.

[Sebotage]

thx a buttload, you should add this to the faqs, i searched for a while before i gave up and made this thread

[D-Man]

Yeah, that's deffenietly a good idea too. Changing out your rubber seals and lines. But those should be changed periodically anyway.

Secondly, R-12 contained freon, and that's no longer avalible in the US for automotive use. They sell "R-12 Substitute" witch is less effective than REAL R-12 or R-134a.

REAL R-12 is the best, but caused a bunch of deaths, no longer avalible in original form. (kids were huffing the crap, and freazing their lungs. Dumbasses)
R-134a - New stuff. Second best. Non-Toxic and you can't get high off of it, so kids arn't huffing this crap.
R-12 Substitute - The worst of the three. However, it is formulated to cool your car. Also non-toxic. It's effective, but not the "best"

BITTER - are you sure the cutoff date was 94? in the US i though it was 95, due to all the new laws that passed. (like OBD-II, ect.) IIRC the cutoff was 95' because it was like 10-15 laws that were all passed at once. (IIRC) i may be wrong. IDK.

[Sebotage]

brings up another question for me, is one brand of r134a as good as another? would a more expensive better brand from the auto store work better than the cheap stuff at walmart? or is it all the same?

[D-Man]

You get what you pay for. Always.

Personaly, i like Artic-Chill. But that's because the can appeals to my 'short attention span childish nature'. And the idea of a polar bear surfing with a bunch of penguins on a block of ice is just cool to me.

This post has been edited by D-Man: Aug 14, 2008 - 2:42 PM

[GriffGirl]

Why would you "get what you pay for" with r134a? Wouldn't it be the same regardless of who bottled it? It's like saying you get what you pay for with water, isn't it? Nine dollar water isn't going to be any better than one dollar water.

[D-Man]

1) its a good rule of thumb
2) cheaper ones are made with cheaper materials and the compound will break down faster. Really don't matter much, Because you'll have to refill it again in a few years. It'd be a few month difference at best. I go for the attractive can.

$9 bottles of water are WAY better than $1 bottles. I believe it's because the $1 bottles are watered down

[GriffGirl]

1) its a good rule of thumb
2) cheaper ones are made with cheaper materials and the compound will break down faster. Really don't matter much, Because you'll have to refill it again in a few years. It'd be a few month difference at best. I go for the attractive can.

$9 bottles of water are WAY better than $1 bottles. I believe it's because the $1 bottles are watered down

Exactly. It's consumers like yourself that keep me employed!

(I'm a sucker for shiny stuff too)

[D-Man]

The other day DEATH referred to me as "Raccoon-eyed" because i am attracted to shinny metallic objects I'm also a sucker for glow-sticks and neon lights. IDK why, but it' gets to me. Black-lights, strobes, ect. Oh man i miss the old school raver scenes. I had the most fun playing with a few chemically enhanced plastic glowing sticks. I could do it for hours. a few of those and 2 nice sturdy lengths of string, Oh man, I'd have people asking me to autograph them

But yeah, that's how refrigerant works people. DON'T MIX THE TWO! Otherwise, that's how it works.

[Bitter]

any R134a you buy off a store shelf is going to be fine. its guys who run shops who need to watch out for the 'chinese' stuff thats cut with things other than 134a. but any good tech can take a look at the information his gauges and temperatures are showing and know quickly if what he has is adulterated with other chemicals.