wrc st205, Dyno sheets PG 11 :) 342whp 336ft/lbs Options

[_Jim_]

Nice numbers! So, without WI, at what PSI would you feel safe to run on street and pump gas? What kind of HP without WI and at what PSI would it be?

Could you send me some pics of your detonations cans? I want to build some but I don't know where to tap the hose end? On the block? On the head? Plz, gimme some info on this! PM me so there will not be any hijack on this thread!

Again : WOW!

Sam

Without WI, and only running 93pump.....I would feel safe running 18psi. You can probably get away with 19psi, but I would start to get worried in the dog days of summer. But 18psi, setup with an efficient IC system (FMIC, or W2A with an upgraded pump) you will be good all year long. Knock seems to occur at or around 20-21psi on a GEN3 still running the CT20B turbo without WI.

As for power, I made 315whp at 18.5psi, so you can expect results similar to this (+/- 5 whp), as this is a stock GEN3, still on stock ECU....so no tuning was done.

The detonation cans are VERY simple to make, I will take pictures of them later for you. After using them once, I will never tune/mod a car without a set, they are truly amazing for what they are. You can hear EVERYTHING that your motor is doing, even before the ECU does. The detonation cans really took the fear/guess work out of pushing the upper limits of the GEN3 setup away for me, because I spent a few hours driving around with the cans hooked up, and the car setup at 16psi.....and just listened. Got familiar with what the motor was supposed to sound like in all conditions. Then, when I went to the dyno, and started turning up the boost, it sounded exactly the same at 24psi as it did at 16psi, showing me the WI was doing its job. Then when I had my boost set for the street (21 psi) I drove around with the cans on for a few hours to check for knock under all conditions, and again.....sounded no different then it did at 16psi.

As for where to hook the cans up to on the motor, it really doesnt matter. I have tried several different locations, and they all have the same "sound/noise/clearness." When I first went to the dyno I had them hooked up underneath the Intake manifold stay bracket, later I then hooked them up to the front of the motor (on the head) which is obviously a lot easier to get too, and still had the same level of sound quality that I had on the block in the back of the motor.

[SeverX13]

Detonation cans FTMFW!!!!

[jeffrosie]

Any further updates on this Jim???
Keen to see how much more your car is putting out.

[pitcelica]

The detonation cans are VERY simple to make, I will take pictures of them later for you. After using them once, I will never tune/mod a car without a set, they are truly amazing for what they are. You can hear EVERYTHING that your motor is doing, even before the ECU does. The detonation cans really took the fear/guess work out of pushing the upper limits of the GEN3 setup away for me, because I spent a few hours driving around with the cans hooked up, and the car setup at 16psi.....and just listened. Got familiar with what the motor was supposed to sound like in all conditions. Then, when I went to the dyno, and started turning up the boost, it sounded exactly the same at 24psi as it did at 16psi, showing me the WI was doing its job. Then when I had my boost set for the street (21 psi) I drove around with the cans on for a few hours to check for knock under all conditions, and again.....sounded no different then it did at 16psi.

This is exactly what I'm looking for! Send me the det cans pics via PM or email glaia50@hotmail.com .

Thanks

Sam

[ra65_22re]

I keep on reading this while im doing my swap and cant wait to get my car running and making mad power. lol I guess I will have to wait to really see what the 3rd gen really can do. sry ive been drinkin and its hard to write.

[Mstoochn]

heck no Jim can't not try and be like me I rock the ebay turbo....he would be a damn follower! lol

Can't wait for ur car to be running so u will be willing to go to local car shows again with me!

yikes, shannon is gettin lonely. WATCH HER CLOSE JIM!!!

we need to talk premium shipping her bud.

[easternpiro1]

have you taken pics of the cans yet? im pretty intrigued by this thread! damn i wish i was following a long time ago! CONGRADS!!

[supershannon77]

I am sorry everyone due to me cleaning upmu photobucket all my links got ruined...I will hopefully one day when I am completly board fix this thread so it has pictures.

Just an update

Jim is garage less He has been doing all of his work in his driveway and it gets annoying until now...he will now be renting a garage from someone local...It is gonna make things a lot easier for doing stuff to our cars so once he gets his turbo kit from baktash things should be moving along really quick since that,s all hes waiting for atm.

Jim and I cant wait to update both our threads with our new projects and hopefully soon that can happen

[boosted185]

I am sorry everyone due to me cleaning upmu photobucket all my links got ruined...I will hopefully one day when I am completly board fix this thread so it has pictures.

Just an update

Jim is garage less He has been doing all of his work in his driveway and it gets annoying until now...he will now be renting a garage from someone local...It is gonna make things a lot easier for doing stuff to our cars so once he gets his turbo kit from baktash things should be moving along really quick since that,s all hes waiting for atm.

Jim and I cant wait to update both our threads with our new projects and hopefully soon that can happen

What's the update with that turbo anyway Shannon? Is it on the way? or is Jim still waiting for "ol dude to figure his **** out?

[supershannon77]

turbo is on the way as of two days again...hopefully it will be here soon!

[3WayStunna]

For those wanting info on the det can, here is something quick and simple!
http://www.d-series.org/forums/diy-forum/9...25-dollars.html

Also your progress so far is pretty impressive man. Dont think the goal was bragging rights but no doubt there is alot to go around i bet ^_^

[SlvrCelica09]

This has been a great great thread JIM, hopefully I can follow in your footsteps with my WRC build. Perhaps when I get the e-153 trans I will see if my car can also handle 21 PSI at 93 OCT. However, I have to say I am not too pleased with the bash attempts in the early posts to this thread.

Lagos don't take this the wrong way, but I feel you let your August 2002 join date go to your head. It was evident that Jim has experience with boost and the CT20b turbo, and has done some pretty good research on how much boost it can handle. Most importantly, he has first hand experience with the GEN3. It says in your profile you have completed a GEN2 swap, not a GEN3 so I fail to see how in fact you know what the boost limits are for the GEN3 engine without first hand experience, so it could be easily said that your opinions about the engine can easily fall under the category of hearsay.

Like Jim said:

No, I respect solid proven Information. I dont care whether it comes from someone who has been around forever, or if it comes from Someone who just joined the site. Solid Proven information doesnt change no matter the amount of years this person has been "around" And this is a perfect example. I can look up the same limited Information as you concerning the GEN3. And all the failures I saw were without WI.......and Some had GREAT success at 20psi without WI (most are around 2005). It was kind of hit or miss there. And that is where the "rumor" that you cant push these turbos past 18psi. So like I said ealier....Rumor turned into "fact" and then became etched in stone, and repeated for years to come.

Despite learning that a well designed GEN3 setup can in fact handle 21 PSI, Lagos returns with:

Dont take this the wrong way, but keep in mind that a few of us have been around the block for a while now. If we have an opinion on something, it is based on fact, and not just hearsay.

Just because you have been here for a while, it does not mean you are always 100% correct.
Im not kissing Jim's arse, and im not calling you out Lagos, I just feel that before someone makes an attempt at bashing someone because their join dates were from 2008 or 2009, I feel we need to REALLY read the thread first, and see if what they are saying makes sense, and not just look at someones join date. If some information is iffy, lets see if what they can back up what they are saying, and if not then perhaps people with FIRST HAND experience with what is being discussed can jump in and give "IMO"

Thats how I feel. I may make enemies for what I have Just said, but I could care less, and I will not reply about this again.
Back on topic, very nice thread JIM. I will bookmark this thread if I have any issues with my GEN3. Im also thinking when I get mines up and running you can check it out, im quite curious how you got the factory intercooler activated. I would love to have it work for me.

[_Jim_]

Thanks Mike.

If you do your own research, understand how things work and why things fail.....you can accomplish your goals without the opinions of others.

Cant wait to see your swap completed man, YOU ARE GOING TO LOVE IT!

[lagos]

This has been a great great thread JIM, hopefully I can follow in your footsteps with my WRC build. Perhaps when I get the e-153 trans I will see if my car can also handle 21 PSI at 93 OCT. However, I have to say I am not too pleased with the bash attempts in the early posts to this thread.

Lagos don't take this the wrong way, but I feel you let your August 2002 join date go to your head. It was evident that Jim has experience with boost and the CT20b turbo, and has done some pretty good research on how much boost it can handle. Most importantly, he has first hand experience with the GEN3. It says in your profile you have completed a GEN2 swap, not a GEN3 so I fail to see how in fact you know what the boost limits are for the GEN3 engine without first hand experience, so it could be easily said that your opinions about the engine can easily fall under the category of hearsay.

Like Jim said:

No, I respect solid proven Information. I dont care whether it comes from someone who has been around forever, or if it comes from Someone who just joined the site. Solid Proven information doesnt change no matter the amount of years this person has been "around" And this is a perfect example. I can look up the same limited Information as you concerning the GEN3. And all the failures I saw were without WI.......and Some had GREAT success at 20psi without WI (most are around 2005). It was kind of hit or miss there. And that is where the "rumor" that you cant push these turbos past 18psi. So like I said ealier....Rumor turned into "fact" and then became etched in stone, and repeated for years to come.

Despite learning that a well designed GEN3 setup can in fact handle 21 PSI, Lagos returns with:

Dont take this the wrong way, but keep in mind that a few of us have been around the block for a while now. If we have an opinion on something, it is based on fact, and not just hearsay.

Just because you have been here for a while, it does not mean you are always 100% correct.
Im not kissing Jim's arse, and im not calling you out Lagos, I just feel that before someone makes an attempt at bashing someone because their join dates were from 2008 or 2009, I feel we need to REALLY read the thread first, and see if what they are saying makes sense, and not just look at someones join date. If some information is iffy, lets see if what they can back up what they are saying, and if not then perhaps people with FIRST HAND experience with what is being discussed can jump in and give "IMO"

Thats how I feel. I may make enemies for what I have Just said, but I could care less, and I will not reply about this again.
Back on topic, very nice thread JIM. I will bookmark this thread if I have any issues with my GEN3. Im also thinking when I get mines up and running you can check it out, im quite curious how you got the factory intercooler activated. I would love to have it work for me.

Oh boy where do I begin.
Fist of all, join date matters a lot. You know why? Because the people who have been in this community for a long time would never dare to attempt to sell bgb downloads that are available for free to other members in an attempt to scam them like you did. You may have tried to play it off as a joke, but you were in fact trying to sell them. We are all here to help each other out, not to take advantage of anyone.

Second, I'm not sure if you are aware of this or not, but Jim and I know each other in person.

Third, this is a discussion thread. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion based on their own knowledge. Id rather have someone debate me on a point and make me think harder about my theories than a bunch of mindless cheerleaders. I sure Jim feels the same way. As far as I can tell, you know nothing on the topic and are just trying to be a cheerleader.

[presure2]

stop the crap.
take it to PM if you guys have a problem.

[Mstoochn]

I no you make 342whp and all but um.... jim, you dont have one of these



good show sir, i will meet u in the 400+whp club in the new year

[_Jim_]

You forget I DO have a variant of the GT3071R going on the new build .

And yes, you will be meeting ME in the 400whp club shortly

Cant wait for your build Mike....it should have some AMAZING information in it. GL BRO.

[delusionz]

Thanks again Jim for the good information.

That 10:1 AFR is very very very rich, which seems like it would be safe to run an aftermarket turbo with a higher CFM per PSI on the stock ECU. -- What AFR would you expect on the stock cams though?

Are you certain that the duty cycle is 100% at 17psi?

I hit 18psi (and fuel cut) at 5000RPM, Is there enough fuel to keep boosting through to 7000 rpm with a FCD? I have a Gen 3 engine with a CT26 upgraded with a TD04E 46 trim steel compressor and steel shaft. (Stock wastegate & actuator, No helper spring, Flap working correctly)

EDIT: I was going to comment about taking the boost level up so high, but I realised you're running a WRC engine meaning the CT20B you have is a steel wheel, not a ceramic turbine. I don't want to further propagate any hear say but I've heard you cant do this to any old CT20B -- My CT20B shattered at 130,000Kms, 1 week after buying the car and I'm guessing the previous owner had a boost tap and then removed it before selling the car.

This post has been edited by delusionz: Sep 8, 2009 - 4:59 PM

[_Jim_]

Thanks again Jim for the good information.

That 10:1 AFR is very very very rich, which seems like it would be safe to run an aftermarket turbo with a higher CFM per PSI on the stock ECU. -- What AFR would you expect on the stock cams though?

Are you certain that the duty cycle is 100% at 17psi?

I hit 18psi (and fuel cut) at 5000RPM, Is there enough fuel to keep boosting through to 7000 rpm with a FCD? I have a Gen 3 engine with a CT26 upgraded with a TD04E 46 trim steel compressor and steel shaft. (Stock wastegate & actuator, No helper spring, Flap working correctly)

EDIT: I was going to comment about taking the boost level up so high, but I realized you're running a WRC engine meaning the CT20B you have is a steel wheel, not a ceramic turbine. I don't want to further propagate any hear say but I've heard you cant do this to any old CT20B -- My CT20B shattered at 130,000Kms, 1 week after buying the car and I'm guessing the previous owner had a boost tap and then removed it before selling the car.

Thanks, I am glad you had a good read

Yes, you are correct that 10:1 is VERYYYY rich, so there is A LOT to be had by upgrading to a larger turbo. There is enough fuel left in this setup for around 380whp....and with the addition on a aftermarket FPR....enough for a fair bit over 400whp. I will be posting up the numbers of a stock GEN3 ECU and larger turbo (variant of the GT3071 to be exact)

All these runs WERE done on stock cams. This is a STOCK GEN3 swap. Only mods on the car were Intake, Exhaust, Boost controller, FCD, and Water injection.

You need to dial in your FCD, but make sure it is an active clamp style FCD. The FCD that only clamps the voltage at the desired point, and doesn't change the voltage on a whole. You have PLENTY of fuel with a GEN3 to take your car above 18psi with the factory CT20B. You are hitting fuel cut because your factory ECU thinks that the wastegate actuator has failed, and shuts everything down in an attempt to save the motor from over boosting. Has nothing to do with a shortage of fuel.

I see you mention that you have an upgraded CT26 with 46mm wheel. Turn up the boost and check your AFR's with a wideband, or do it on a dyno. If your upgraded CT26 is anything like the ATS upgraded CT26 (AKA CT27) it is nothing more then a glorified CT20B, and you have the exact same setup that I am running.

Yes, I have read many threads of the ceramic CT20B failing above continues 18+psi pulls. I was not concerned because as you mentioned I am running a WRC motor set, which comes stock with a Steel Wheel CT20B.

[DEATH]

Jim for featured ride