Project sound insulation, Determined to get rid of some road noise Options

[stephen_lee]

What about doing the roof with a sunroof? Anyone done that one yet?

I did mine today, with a stock sun roof. It is moot, I didn't really notice too much of a change.

Thanks, I probably won't bother then. Toyota makes some noisy sunroofs. I wonder how much quieter my car would be without it, but I'd rather have it.

mine had sun roof. i took the sun roof off and put it on the sheet metal, then took the sunroof assy apart and put it on the little cover that slides to keep the sun out, and my whole headliner. helped a lot! makes the noisy sunroof pretty darn quiet

[richee3]

What about doing the roof with a sunroof? Anyone done that one yet?

I did mine today, with a stock sun roof. It is moot, I didn't really notice too much of a change.

Thanks, I probably won't bother then. Toyota makes some noisy sunroofs. I wonder how much quieter my car would be without it, but I'd rather have it.

mine had sun roof. i took the sun roof off and put it on the sheet metal, then took the sunroof assy apart and put it on the little cover that slides to keep the sun out, and my whole headliner. helped a lot! makes the noisy sunroof pretty darn quiet

Okay, now I'm torn on what to do... Did you use Frost King? I just used the carpet material that this thread started with, and that made a difference, but I'd like to switch materials. I don't think there's any feasible way I could get a layer of that carpet padding in my headliner anyway hahaha

[stephen_lee]

i used frost king on my headliner

the rest of the car i used both

[AMCMoe]

I used Frost King in mine. Worked great and was very easy to put down. I bought a roller to put it down with but ended up not really needing it. I did the doors, under all of the carpet, and will be doing the headliner tonight. I'm surprised how well it worked.

[stephen_lee]

im doing this to my v6 swap as well. i know im going to get flamed for adding 'dead weight' to my project car, but i appreciate being able to talk on the highway lol. 90% of the sheet metal is covered w/ the foil/foam insulation and im adding the carpet padding to the panels this week after work. i have found the BEST adhesive for this is actually rubber cement. you only have to cover the sheet metal if ur laying down the foil/foam. but u have to cover both surfaces (sheet metal/plastics AND carpet padding) when you're laying down the padding. I assume i added between 25-40LBS to the car with all this insulation, and spent ~$150. Totally worth it IMO. Home Depot has the foil/foam for $14.00, while its almost $20.00 at lowes. i have pictures and will upload them later

[97celiman]

I recommend laying down frost king, then at least on the floor laying down the foam carpet padding...the doors are a challenge with carpet...

someone should get a decibal reader and get a before anything and after frost king install...I just have frost king in now..

[JasonTX]

what i did on my mr2. and hopefully will be doing after summer on the celica



http://bretleg6.fatcow.com/forums/viewtopi...78b8f29e8affd32

[stephen_lee]

very good info at the end of that thread. copy && paste:

"Jason,

I was looking at the sounddeadening website and he recommended things a little differently than what you did.
About "dynamat"type products:

Products like this are vibration dampers. Their only purpose is to control resonance in a vehicle’s panels. Controlling resonance is the absolutely critical first step in any sound deadening project, but more isn’t better and trying to use a CLD to block sound is too expensive, too labor intensive and makes it unnecessarily difficult to do future vehicle maintenance

The process

To control panel resonance you should use the best vibration damper you can find and only treat the 25% at the center of the panel. You won’t have to worry about asphalt melting or falling off and you won’t get black goo from cheap butyl compounds on your living room carpet. You will spend less, the project will be easier and the results will be better.

Barriers work best when they form an unbroken shield between the noise sources and your ears. CLD Tiles are designed to work best with just 25% coverage. That isn't true for a barrier. For best results, you will want to completely line the floor, doors, quarter panels and trunk or cargo area for a hatchback, station wagon or van. If you are willing to compromise you can cover the firewall to the front edge of the front seats, doors and rear wheel wells and still get very good results.

Barrier performance is significantly enhanced by adding a foam decoupler or "air spring" between it and the vehicle. This works by isolating the barrier from any residual resonance that may still exist in the underlying panels after treatment with a vibration damper. It also creates a more complicated series of boundaries for noise to negotiate. Finally, adding a layer of closed cell foam will absorb and block some high frequency sound.

So it's basically is a three step process.
1. CLD tiles - "dynamat" type products on 25%(the centers) of panels.
2. Foam- a complete layer to suspend the barrier (MLV)
3. Mass loaded vinyl- a complete uninterrupted layer for maximum sound deadening.

Thanks,
Ric"

[stephen_lee]

if you do the inside of the door panels w/ the foam its not bad. dont tighten the bottom screws too much, you'll bust the plastic. and as i mentioned before, rubber cement works best

[richee3]

Just did my project car with Frost King today. Did everything but the interior plastics and moonroof. I'd like to drive the car around and see what kind of difference it makes without those being done. So I have all the sheet metal in the trunk, rear quarter panels, doors, and floor lined. The doors sound a little more solid when I shut them, but since the car doesn't run, I can't judge on road driving and I won't be able to for a while. When it's running again, I may line the firewall, moon roof, and interior plastics to see if that makes a difference.

I did my old car with the foam padding. I had to line both the sheet metal and the interior plastics, and it added a lot of weight. Frost King is a lot more expensive, considering I only spent $15 for the carpet padding and the glue and I'm already $50 into Frost King. I'll post again and comment on the difference it makes after I get a road test in.

[HectortheRican]

Wow, I think I'm going to do this. How exactly do you take the door panels off?

[NOVAKx17]

Wow, I think I'm going to do this. How exactly do you take the door panels off?

its pretty easy, all you really need is a 10mm socket and ratchet, along with a philips head screw driver.. just make sure you
take out all the nuts and screws/bolts and all that holds it on is the plastic pop rivits ... make sure you don't break them when
you take it off though, or it won't be as secure as before and it will rattle.

hope that helped!

[HectortheRican]

hope that helped!

It did, thanks!

[richee3]

Where in the world are you using a 10 mm socket on the door panels? All I ever use and all I've ever needed to use on any of my 4 Celicas is a Phillips screwdriver.

Lining the inside of the doors with the sound insulation is tricky. The carpet padding is almost too thick and will absorb water when it rains, which can cause rust. Not to mention that it'll get in the way of rolling your window down if the glue lets go and the padding falls down. Plus I would imagine it would stink when it gets wet. The Frost King was easier to put inside the doors, but we'll see how well it works after it rains. Not sure what will happen, if it'll still be sticking to the door or if it'll absorb water or what. Anyone with Frost King inside the doors, any thoughts on this? I want to keep an eye on it for a little bit. Lining everywhere else in the car is a breeze.

This post has been edited by richee3: Jul 10, 2010 - 11:38 PM

[stephen_lee]

had frost king in my doors for over a year. no issues. i used rubber cement. holds like a champ & no smells

[Galcobar]

It's also where in the doors you put it -- if you're putting the carpet padding/foam into the doors, it's best to attach it to the inside of the interior trim panel, so that the weather seal is between it and the rain.

The Frost King is open-cell, so if it gets wet it will hold the water, but it will also drain. However, it is designed to work best with the foam side towards the source of the noise, so you pretty much have to apply it to the inner metal door panel. Properly applied, with something like aluminum tape along the seams, allows it to act as a weather shield. At that point you can apply the foam either to it, or to the inside of the interior trim panel.

[richee3]

had frost king in my doors for over a year. no issues. i used rubber cement. holds like a champ & no smells

That's great news. I'll still keep an eye on it just to make sure. I wasn't as diligent as you. I didn't use rubber cement. Only the adhesive on the Frost King. It rained fairly hard tonight, so I'll go check on it tomorrow to see if it's holding water or if the adhesive failed.

It's also where in the doors you put it -- if you're putting the carpet padding/foam into the doors, it's best to attach it to the inside of the interior trim panel, so that the weather seal is between it and the rain.

The Frost King is open-cell, so if it gets wet it will hold the water, but it will also drain. However, it is designed to work best with the foam side towards the source of the noise, so you pretty much have to apply it to the inner metal door panel. Properly applied, with something like aluminum tape along the seams, allows it to act as a weather shield. At that point you can apply the foam either to it, or to the inside of the interior trim panel.

Good information. That's how I did the foam carpet padding in my old car. I found that it was a lot more effective when you stuck it to the interior panels rather than the sheet metal of the car anyway. I lined the sheet metal of the car with Frost King. I'd like to get a couple more rolls and add it here and there. After I get the car running again, I'll consider lining the interior panels but as I understand it, that would be a moot point since I have all the sheet metal lined.

[richee3]

I just realized that this thread covers road noise pretty well, but has anybody worked on silencing their motor? I know I can take my dash out and line the firewall with Frost King, but there is already some sort of lining on the firewall in my car. I'm trying to figure out if there's a good way to silence the motor noise a bit. I don't want it gone altogether, but anybody with a 5S knows how bad it drones on the highway.

[stephen_lee]

i lined my project car's firewall with it... but it dont run yet

[richee3]

Mine either. That's the problem. I know we could line the inside of our firewall, but there is already some sound insulation there, so did you have to remove that or did you put it back after you put the Frost King down? Or does that stuff only go up so far on the firewall? I toyed with the idea of lining the outside of the firewall with Frost King since it has a measure of heat resistance, but that just sounds like a bad idea. I've got a roll and a half of Frost King left and I'm debating how best to use it.