Project sound insulation, Determined to get rid of some road noise Options

[kamax]

think using duct tape to tape the foil onto the base/sheet metal would have any negative effect on the foam?

[stephen_lee]

No. But use the tape only as a way to seal out moisture and hold the edges. I'd use done kind of glue still

[kamax]

well I am using rubber cement to stick it to bare metal/plastic/wood. and than duct taping the edge and small/loose pieces together to prevent it falling off or leaking just to be sure =D

this is what i did

[richee3]

You'll have to let us know how well that works. I'm under the impression that FrostKing works best if the foam side is towards the sound, but I noticed when I did the sound insulation with the foam carpet padding that lining my door card was much more effective than lining my sheet metal.

[richee3]

I just signed up to test out a new sound insulation called GTMat. They're sending me 10 sq ft for free, which should be enough to do the floor of my trunk. GTMat is a new company and they're wanting help getting started so they're asking for reviews. So far, they seem to be rated pretty well. The price is way better than Dynamat. If it works out, I'll be buying plenty more to insulate the engine bay and replace all the Frost King I have now. I'll let you guys know how it works out.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?u...-keywords=GTMat

[chacha]

how to get some free product...let me know, i want the try outs

[Galcobar]

I just signed up to test out a new sound insulation called GTMat. They're sending me 10 sq ft for free, which should be enough to do the floor of my trunk. GTMat is a new company and they're wanting help getting started so they're asking for reviews. So far, they seem to be rated pretty well. The price is way better than Dynamat. If it works out, I'll be buying plenty more to insulate the engine bay and replace all the Frost King I have now. I'll let you guys know how it works out.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?u...-keywords=GTMat

Reading the description of the material, it won't serve the same purpose as the Frost King. The foam-and-foil of the Frost King is meant to absorb and block sound waves from outside, while dampeners vibrations within the panel itself. There's some crossover, of course, but they're not substitutes.

[Syaoran]

Frost King and any constrained layer damper cannot be compared. They both serve different purposes.


CLD's main use is weighing down panels (adding mass) to reduce resonance cause by vibrations (bass, for example). As an added bonus, it slightly reduces noise trying to go through it. However, it neither absorbs it nor deflects it fully.

Frost King seems to be a sandwich of adhesive, open-cell foam and foil (not exactly sure what material this "foil" is made of), but it seems comparable to the foam used to absorb noise in sound rooms (they used open-cell foam just like Frost King, but in varying thicknesses i.e. the thicker the better, but the more space it takes and the more weight it adds)

The foil seems to do the insulation magic, while the foam just absorbs moisture, noise and some vibration. If I was to do a comparison from what I assume this product is,

*using CLD to reduce noise is like using Frost King to reduce vibration.


That said, I believe that the composition of the product would allow it to reduce noise even if slightly, and it would be most effective if used in conjunction with other products (specifically MLV and the padding that the Original Post shows). I'd like to do this to my Celica, as a day's worth of driving in it in different road conditions (except rain) was rather irritating (mine's a 94...) I have 17" wheels with worn tires and a bad wheel bearing, so you can guess how irritating it was today.


My plan will be: Tape Frost King as a base for lying down the other products. I'd have to clean everything with at least mineral spirits or wax and grease remover for proper adhesion of the tape (especially on vertical surfaces like door panels), and using duct tape to seal the seams and edges.

After taping Frost King, I plan on spraying on some 3M 90 spray adhesive and sticking on layers of the carpet padding for the vertical surfaces. MLV shouldn't be used on vertical surfaces through adhesion, it should be riveted, for example, instead. You should be working with 1lb/ft MLV for best results, so putting all that Frost King and adding MLV on top would make the doors kind of heavy, for example.


So for the doors and vertical sections I want to use carpet padding. For the floor however I want to use MLV, sticking it onto the frost king with some adhesive so that it doesn't shift when moving your feet, items on the floor, etc.

I should get very noticeable results from doing all of this, and stripping out the Celica's interior isn't too hard. Hopefully that'll be next weekend's project if the body work I plan on doing leaves me with some cash on hand. I've already purchased two rolls of 24''x15ft Frost King to start putting on the doors and panels, and the hatch floor. I hope to see good results from just that, as everyone seems to obtain.

[Galcobar]

Would it not be better to apply the mass loading material directly to the panels, as the point is to increase their mass and thus reduce the frequency of their vibrations to inaudibility?

Laying the Frost King down first would decouple the dampening material from the panel it's meant to dampen, assuming that the mass loading material doesn't compress the foil to the point where it is unable to function.

The open-cell foam is sound insulation, taking advantage of the inefficiency in sound transmission when soundwaves cross multiple different densities (the open cells force the wave to transition from foam to air to foam repeatedly). The aluminum foil backing is intended to help reflect sound which makes it through the foam.

The other point to be aware of is that the Frost King has a strong adhesive already applied to the foam side. I used aluminum tape for the seams to make them less prone to damage but it wasn't necessary for proper adhesion.

This post has been edited by Galcobar: Aug 19, 2012 - 3:08 PM

[richee3]

I ended up finishing the Celica's trunk in Frost King this morning, and I'll add some to the roof later. I'm putting the GTMat in my 350Z, specifically on the rear fenders. The GTMat looks like it will be a good substitute for Dynamat Xtreme, so I may end up buying some to line my firewall and the underside of my hood with. I really enjoy a quiet car, to say the least.

Syaoran- The carpet padding in the doors is a bit of overkill and adds a decent amount of weight. I have had both Frost King and the carpet padding in my doors at one point and I couldn't hear any difference at all when I took the carpet padding out. Then again, I have a '98 that had some extra sound insulation from the factory and that might make a difference. Under my carpet, I just have Frost King, and that made a big difference. The biggest difference, however, came from lining my rear fender wells and quarter panels with Frost King. Since the fender wells are inside the car in a Celica, you get quite a big of noise from those. Covering the fenders both in the trunk and by the back seats with Frost King cut out the biggest part of my noise, followed by lining the floorboards, then the doors. I currently do not have my firewall or roof lined with anything, but the rest of the body panels in my interior are lined. I'll be curious to see your results.

This post has been edited by richee3: Aug 19, 2012 - 12:00 PM

[Syaoran]

Would it not be better to apply the mass loading material directly to the panels, as the point is to increase their mass and thus reduce the frequency of their vibrations to inaudibility?

Laying the Frost King down first would decouple the dampening material from the panel it's meant to dampen, assuming that the mass loading material doesn't compress the foil to the point where it is unable to function.

The open-cell foam is sound insulation, taking advantage of the inefficiency in sound transmission when soundwaves cross multiple different densities (the open cells force the wave to transition from foam to air to foam repeatedly). The aluminum foil backing is intended to help reflect sound which makes it through the foam.

The other point to be aware of is that the Frost King has a strong adhesive already applied to the foam side. I used aluminum tape for the seams to make them less prone to damage but it wasn't necessary for proper adhesion.

I don't want to use CLD tiles in my case. Mass-loaded Vinyl isn't particularly easy to stick on vertical surfaces. I think you got them confused. MLV is to reduce sound and CLD is to reduce resonance by adding weight.

The usual combo is CLD->CCF (Closed-Cell Foam)-> MLV. I plan on using Frost King with some MLV and some carpet padding. MLV on horizontal surfaces like the floor, and padding on the vertical ones.

I ended up finishing the Celica's trunk in Frost King this morning, and I'll add some to the roof later. I'm putting the GTMat in my 350Z, specifically on the rear fenders. The GTMat looks like it will be a good substitute for Dynamat Xtreme, so I may end up buying some to line my firewall and the underside of my hood with. I really enjoy a quiet car, to say the least.

Syaoran- The carpet padding in the doors is a bit of overkill and adds a decent amount of weight. I have had both Frost King and the carpet padding in my doors at one point and I couldn't hear any difference at all when I took the carpet padding out. Then again, I have a '98 that had some extra sound insulation from the factory and that might make a difference. Under my carpet, I just have Frost King, and that made a big difference. The biggest difference, however, came from lining my rear fender wells and quarter panels with Frost King. Since the fender wells are inside the car in a Celica, you get quite a big of noise from those. Covering the fenders both in the trunk and by the back seats with Frost King cut out the biggest part of my noise, followed by lining the floorboards, then the doors. I currently do not have my firewall or roof lined with anything, but the rest of the body panels in my interior are lined. I'll be curious to see your results.

How much did you use for the rear? I ordered two rolls of 2"x15ft I believe. I'll see how that goes.

[richee3]

A single roll worked out perfectly for the rear and after driving around some, cut out a decent amount of road noise. Not much exhaust noise, but a decent amount of road noise. I also lined the back wall where I could.

Edit: The rolls I bought were 12"x15', not 2'x15' so you should have plenty.

This post has been edited by richee3: Aug 22, 2012 - 10:21 AM

[Syaoran]

It's actually 2 inches x15ft hehe but we'll see how much two rolls of that covers up. I couldn't find anything bigger and they don't seem to carry it at the local Home Depot

[richee3]

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I've had a couple of rolls of that stuff too. It came in handy in quite a few places. Surely you can order the foot wide stuff? It'll go a lot faster with it.

[Galcobar]

It's actually 2 inches x15ft hehe but we'll see how much two rolls of that covers up. I couldn't find anything bigger and they don't seem to carry it at the local Home Depot

Check Lowe's, their supply of Frost King/Thermwell products seems to be better than that of Home Depot.

[Syaoran]

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I've had a couple of rolls of that stuff too. It came in handy in quite a few places. Surely you can order the foot wide stuff? It'll go a lot faster with it.

I have patience........... I hope haha

It's actually 2 inches x15ft hehe but we'll see how much two rolls of that covers up. I couldn't find anything bigger and they don't seem to carry it at the local Home Depot

Check Lowe's, their supply of Frost King/Thermwell products seems to be better than that of Home Depot.

No Lowe's around here Is there any similar product?

[richee3]

I usually get mine from a different place altogether, Menard's. I'm not sure if they're a local chain or national but they have better prices than Home Depot or Lowe's. PM me if you can't find any of the foot wide stuff and want me to ship you some. Seems like the 2" stuff will cost a lot more by the time you buy enough.

[Syaoran]

I usually get mine from a different place altogether, Menard's. I'm not sure if they're a local chain or national but they have better prices than Home Depot or Lowe's. PM me if you can't find any of the foot wide stuff and want me to ship you some. Seems like the 2" stuff will cost a lot more by the time you buy enough.

That would be nice. Sending a PM.

[chacha]

we need pictures...words don't do justice

[jcbass7]

The corvette guys (older vettes) use a combo of dynamat and the frost king stuff. A little dyna mat to add weight to a few panels and then the entire floor in the frost king to block sound, but in the vette's its used to block the heat as well. My 70' stingray gets a lot of heat bleeding through the firewall and tranny tunnel, almost to the point of being unbearable if I'm driving with sandals or barefoot. (I live near the beach) Anywho, I'm guessing this Frost King stuff will help with the efficiency of the A/C and heating systems in the celica since the car is better insulated.