4" intake on 3rd gen 3sgte, disscussion topic! GIVE YOUR 2 CENTS! Options

[presure2]

The finished intake looks really good dude. Very bad ass and mean looking.
Did you get the 1/2in piping from burns as well?
That was one thing that I always had trouble sourcing when I was making my intakes.

1/2"? the 2 nipples are smaller than 1/2" i think.
the AIC one is ~10mm (i drill out a nipple from an exhaust hanger for that one) and for the catch can one i use the nipple that is in the intake, just cut in half.

[95st-celica]

looks good...very nice work..just curious as to why you dint take the piping further and put it down in the fender well almost like the stock unit...with the air filter sucking up almost all cold air? do you think it would be worth it? would it fit is also another question...i think with a 4" pipe you might have to cut a hole or 2 to get it to fit down in there...i know with mine i had to do a little trimming...looks good though

[presure2]

looks good...very nice work..just curious as to why you dint take the piping further and put it down in the fender well almost like the stock unit...with the air filter sucking up almost all cold air? do you think it would be worth it? would it fit is also another question...i think with a 4" pipe you might have to cut a hole or 2 to get it to fit down in there...i know with mine i had to do a little trimming...looks good though

a couple of reasons.
#1, jim dont have underbody plastics. water = no no.

#2, i think it looks silly.

#3, i dont think it'd be worth it with all the extra piping.

[DEATH]

looks good...very nice work..just curious as to why you dint take the piping further and put it down in the fender well almost like the stock unit...with the air filter sucking up almost all cold air? do you think it would be worth it? would it fit is also another question...i think with a 4" pipe you might have to cut a hole or 2 to get it to fit down in there...i know with mine i had to do a little trimming...looks good though

a couple of reasons.
#1, jim dont have underbody plastics. water = no no.

#2, i think it looks silly.

#3, i dont think it'd be worth it with all the extra piping.

Point #3 is a very good one [The rest are as well] - don't you think the two extreme bends and the 3' of extra piping negates the minimal effect slightly colder air would give? This is why I always tell people don't bother unless you just want the bragging rights or the look.

This post has been edited by DEATH: Nov 27, 2008 - 8:47 AM

[presure2]

looks good...very nice work..just curious as to why you dint take the piping further and put it down in the fender well almost like the stock unit...with the air filter sucking up almost all cold air? do you think it would be worth it? would it fit is also another question...i think with a 4" pipe you might have to cut a hole or 2 to get it to fit down in there...i know with mine i had to do a little trimming...looks good though

a couple of reasons.
#1, jim dont have underbody plastics. water = no no.

#2, i think it looks silly.

#3, i dont think it'd be worth it with all the extra piping.

Point #3 is a very good one [The rest are as well] - don't you think the two extreme bends and the 3' of extra piping negates the minimal effect slightly colder air would give? This is why I always tell people don't bother unless you just want the bragging rights or the look.

yes. i mean, not like i have back to back tests to really say one way or the other, but its my opinion, and for now im sticking to it..lmao.

[_Jim_]

k..knowing that running 20psi with stock computer and everything, the car should be doing about 290 to 300 to the wheel on race gas. not sure what the true max of the ct20b is but lets say its 22psi, a intake should only (if it works right) put about 5-12 gain in horse (<----after stock intake), correct me if im wrong but im not totally sure about the horse gain is. but i cant see at 20psi(is stock ct20b max) making a 40-50hp gain with just a 4inch intake??? but sayin at at 22psi you make 305-315hp then u add the 4inch intake and make 328 to 316 then thats is believeable.
so what im getting to is that with a 4inch intake you can make a reliable 40-50 hp gain damn!!, but yeah testing it would be great.
i myself was planning on making a 4inch icebox and see what the differents is.

ok here is a crazy story..my buddy with his 92 civic with a swap b18c use to have a injen cold air intake right..he went and got it dyno at 218 to the wheel. after it got stolen he decided to make his own as a joke untill he got a replacement. so he went and got 4inch pvc pipe and fab his own up. decided to go to the dyno for fun since we all was going to get our dyno and amazing things was that when he went and dyno he made more power with the pvc intake then the injen one..228hp

so it could happen but im not sure if u can really get 40-50 horse gain...

I dont really understand why you keep saying 40-50whp gains with no additions other than a 4" intake. You seem to clear it up again when you guess at HP levels at 22psi without a 4" intake being 315, and when the 4" intake is added you quote the actual numbers made of 328. Meaning at this point in time the only difference being the actual 4" intake (still 22 psi) and not different boost pressures. so the intake made an additional 13whp with the number you posted.

As far as the "max" the CT20B can produce, nobody knows yet. Hux recently modded the wastegate actuator on a customers car and hit 30+ psi at 4000rpms where he had to (QUICKLY LOLOLOL) stop the run, it should be interesting to see what PSI he plans to run when he sorts out the wastegate actuator.

And you said 290-300whp at 20psi on race gas.....why? I plan on running 20psi on 93 pump gas, and water injecion. Do you say race gas because you dynoed your car on race gas and this is just the information you know from first hand experience?

And while we are on the topic of race gas and power, I may have some info mistaken. From what I have read race gas in a Great tool for experimenting with higher boost levels. This is because it burns slower and cooler than 93, and chances of knock are less likely to occur. I know you are able to achieve higher boost levels than with regular 93, but I don't know if there is much of a change in spool because I haven't seen a dyno run just to see the different characteristics race gas has on a car, with all other mods being the same. But as for added HP, and this where I could be wrong, I dont think there are HP gains to be had just by running race gas. I have heard +10 whp....but again I have only heard of that, never seen any actual info showing me that. Now, I am not saying you CANT get more horsepower out of race gas on the same setup, but you need to tune for it. You can run race gas much leaner than you can 93....safe afr's seem to range 12-5-13.0 where as pump gas safe afrs seem to be aimed at 11.5. So there are quite a few gains to be had there. I know that was a little off topic, but maybe I can tie it in here. If boosted achieved 290-300whp at 20psi on race gas untuned stock GE3 ecu, then I would expect 290-300whp at 20psi on pump gas untuned stock GEN3 ecu and WI (I wouldn't feel to good running these boost pressures without WI, this is why I stated that)

[_Jim_]

Oh, and manny that would be a great idea to also include the stock air box for testing. When you purchase a performance product from a company, the hp numbers are always measured against stock. And if my pump doesnt come in time, see if Dustin will run his car on the dyno with the stock air box, his 3" intake, and my 4" intake.

[RUNNIN-LOW]

Ok let me clear it up with u jim maybe I just posted something wrong or typed it wrong knowing from my own tune. With everything stock and at20psi u can make that much power...I didn't qoute anything but I was sure I read that they said there car was making about 280 around there to the wheel. Then with there 4inch intake and race gas they made 348 or something. I wasn't taking about my car I was talking about the mr2 guy. Ill have to het on my comp to fix this if I miss typed anything on the stupid goggle phone and it sucks!
But u know ii would like to see if there is a change in power with the stock set and the 4inch monster...

[_Jim_]

o0o0o0o I know what you are talking about. No in his thread he states that "they always assumed they made at least 280whp" but in fact when they strapped it to the dyno they were making 328 at 23 psi. List of mods
4" intake
Boost Controller
Boost defender
3" exhaust

Stock fuel, stock ecu, stock GEN3 fuel pump, and stock intercooler (its in an mr2 for those who dont know)

[RUNNIN-LOW]

i just put the always assumed 280hp and compared it with there 348hp..also i didnt take the time to go read the whole forum that they posted up i didnt even know they did 23psi...so basicly i coulda have made that much too then, nah i would have never did it anyways to afraid to blow turbos that i dont have. man 23psi..nice to know now..

[_Jim_]

Well all the info I posted was on the first page of that thread. LOL you are surprised to hear 23psi, there are a few Mr2OC members boosting above 25psi. In fact one member was boosting 29psi on his daily driven GEN3 Mr2 with a gt28rs!

[darthripley]

i'm interested to see the results, but i personally feel there would be many other bottlenecks at higher boost levels that would yield more hp such as the intake manifold & throttle body.
obviously 4" intake piping is substantially cheaper than the above mentioned upgrades.
just because you can run 20+psi on a ct20 doesn't mean it's effecient - you simply reach a point where you are truly just blowing hot air & it won't make anymore hp.

for the dyno testing are you all going to run on pump or higher octane 'race' gas?

This post has been edited by darthripley: Dec 1, 2008 - 3:28 PM

[Culpable04]

this is just like when we go to McDs and have a Coke, they now have those thick straws, try to drink the same Coke with a Sunny Ds pouch straw and you'll see why this mod will yield power gains.

[pipes]

this is just like when we go to McDs and have a Coke, they now have those thick straws, try to drink the same Coke with a Sunny Ds pouch straw and you'll see why this mod will yield power gains.

ok using that same logic if you took a fire hose and drank that same coke you wouldnt be getting that same amount down your throat

[99GT]

this is just like when we go to McDs and have a Coke, they now have those thick straws, try to drink the same Coke with a Sunny Ds pouch straw and you'll see why this mod will yield power gains.

ok using that same logic if you took a fire hose and drank that same coke you wouldnt be getting that same amount down your throat

You have to do R&D to get in between these two.

Props to Manny.

This post has been edited by 99GT: Dec 1, 2008 - 4:29 PM

[presure2]

this is just like when we go to McDs and have a Coke, they now have those thick straws, try to drink the same Coke with a Sunny Ds pouch straw and you'll see why this mod will yield power gains.

ok using that same logic if you took a fire hose and drank that same coke you wouldnt be getting that same amount down your throat

your throat dont spin at 130,000 rpm.

[lagos]

this is just like when we go to McDs and have a Coke, they now have those thick straws, try to drink the same Coke with a Sunny Ds pouch straw and you'll see why this mod will yield power gains.

The problem is that there is a sunnyD straw after the fire hose.
The turbo inlet, outlet, intercooler end tanks and throttle body all cause a restriction to the air thats going to end up in the cylinders.
In theory, you should only need an intake thats as big as the largest part of your setup. On a stock 3s, that would be the turbo's inlet at 2.75inches.

[Culpable04]

^ that's correct, but just like when people put a cat-back instead of a full turbo back exhaust every little bit helps.


at Pipes, every system has its own efficiency range, if your can handle the fire hose, then why not ? I can't tell since is out of my range.

[_Jim_]

Yes the 2.75 compressor opening is a "restriction." But it is not the only thing to take into consideration. Here's the deffintion of a vortex off WIKI

A vortex is a spinning, often turbulent, flow of fluid. Any spiral motion with closed streamlines is vortex flow. The motion of the fluid swirling rapidly around a center is called a vortex. The speed and rate of rotation of the fluid are greatest at the center, and decrease progressively with distance from the center.

So its not as simple as how much liquid you can or can not suck throw different size straws (but I a kick out of imagineing someone in a drinking race with a SUNNY D straw ). The compressor side is spinning at incredible rates, in excess of 100,000 rpms. Air will be in a vortex state when entering into the compressor housing. So the air will be flowing into the 2.75" opening at great speeds, as described in the definition. So, the 2.75" opening in the compressor housing will be able to take much more air then a 2.75" opening would be able to take if it wasn't under vortex conditions. So, based on the definition "The speed and rate of rotation of the fluid are greatest at the center, and decrease progressively with distance from the center" you would want a bigger intake pipe to to allow for more air to be in the intake pipe at all times to use the vortex condition to its fullest potential.

So I would think that a .25" increase (3" intake) isnt going to supply the extra air needed to reap the full benifits, but I think 1.25" increase (4" intake) would.

And before people jump down my throat, I DO NOT believe that you can go endless with this. Meaning at some point gains are going to taper off and eventually stop increasing as the size of the pipe increases. So, no....there are NOT super huge, massive, out of this world gains to be had with a 8" intake

[Cuts_the_Pilot]

Im sorry i dont see how there is going to be a power gain to be had going from 3" to 4" (if that is infact what you did)

going from stock to either 3" or 4" with a decent flowing filter from stock would give a small gain, and i mean small not even 10 kw (less then 15 hp)

since you are changing your filter going from 3" to 4" the only real way to test is to do a few pulls on the dyno, all without any filter at all.

get back to us with proof.