would like some clarification, Trying to make sense of the scattered st205 cv axel info Options

[enderswift]

hey everyone, I've been reading up on the superstrut suspension lately and that got me asking myself why everyone has such a hard time with the axle's after a swap. Before, i just assumed that the st204 front suspension was just waaaaay too different from the superstrut setup (and it is), thus calling for hybrid length axle's. However, lots of st205 owners convert their superstrut to regular McPherson w/o any problems. So this kind of leads to the question of why exactly cant we use the gt4 axles if we are using a converted gt4 tranny? Does it indeed still have to do with the difference in length of the control/A arm between superstrut and udsm?

if thats the case, im imagining it would be possible copy what st205 owners do and replace the usdm suspension with a converted(i.e. superstrut converted to McPherson) superstrut setup. that way all of the axle business is done away with. This would be great since alot of front clips come with mostly intact suspension components anyway; not to mention one of toyota's criteria called for the superstrut setup using the same mounts as a conventional McPherson suspension, so it would be cake to install (I'm assuming)

I hope I havent misunderstood anything and I'd like some input please

This post has been edited by enderswift: Dec 16, 2008 - 12:11 AM

[97celiman]

this doesnt really contribute but does anyone have any insight as to why ppl in the us want ss and euro want macpherson...cant everyone be happy with what they have???? sheesh

is this the simple "want what you cant have" syndrome?

[enderswift]

thats not what this is about. One of the more annoying things of a 3sgte swap ( and we want one for obvious reasons) was dealing with the axles. If there is an easier way to go about it, as opposed to combining several different parts together, Im all ears.

im not saying i want ss, its expensive and breaks easy, I want a way to use stock st205 axles. And if that means using some components from ss then so be it.

anyway, back to the original question. Is such an idea even possible ect

This post has been edited by enderswift: Dec 16, 2008 - 12:47 AM

[Batman722]

the axles have nothing to do with the SS or McPh suspension, it's with the tranny.

if we are using a converted gt4 tranny?

who is using a converted GT-Four tranny ?

usually when someone swaps and has FWD with their swap they either use a s54 (GT) tranny or a e153 (MR-2 turbo, V6 Camry, V6 Solara) tranny. Where the axles go into the st205 tranny (e154F) or the st185 (e150F IIRC) is completely different than with FWD trannys.

here's a pic of an ST205 tranny



and a pic of a GT tranny



might not be the best pic but you can see the GT tranny is missing the entire rear section and the axles are much longer with the FWD trannys.

You need longer axles with a swap, unless you use use the AWD tranny.

[enderswift]

I knew about keeping the s54, but according to some threads on here, they cant hold the power. I read about the solara trans but didn't wants its taller gears. As for the mr2's, i dont know why i didnt want to go that route. maybe it was the thought of finding one. I could have sworn i saw a post online that showed how to convert a gt4 transmission to work in fwd. with that in mind i thought it was really weird that people were having axle issues since i figured everything should just be plug and play with those parts. Which then lead me thinking that it was something to do with the usdm suspension vs converted ss. I really thought it was strange that those arms would be different lengths. i was

So what your saying makes waaaay more sense. I now see how the passanger side axel would have to be longer if the middle section was deleted. I must have been looking at an mr2 conversion page then. thanks for the reply

now i have to find out if stock mr2 axles can be used together with the mr2 tranny. im guessing no, and that you would need hybrids as well

This post has been edited by enderswift: Dec 16, 2008 - 2:02 AM

[Nial]

However, lots of st205 owners convert their superstrut to regular McPherson w/o any problems.

Really...I know of only one person that has successfully done this modification and it required alot of "work...other than that I have never heard of it even being attempted on an st205.?????

[presure2]

no matter what e series tranny you use you will need hybrid axles.

[enderswift]

while I was reading about ss it mentioned how its a great suspension, but very expensive to maintain. It then went on to say that alot of people ditch the ss and go with mcpherson unless i misread that too...

also, i figured as much with the axles, i was going to look into it today but thanks for saving me an hour or so.

im just gonna have to go over alot of stuff again. thanks for the replys guys

[Nial]

while I was reading about ss it mentioned how its a great suspension, but very expensive to maintain. It then went on to say that alot of people ditch the ss and go with mcpherson unless i misread that too...

also, i figured as much with the axles, i was going to look into it today but thanks for saving me an hour or so.

im just gonna have to go over alot of stuff again. thanks for the replys guys

Alot of the rally teams did ditch the SS suspension and fit mcpherson struts....but the same cant be said for normal road car users...I guess it depends on where you get your information from.

[enderswift]

yea there is a great site on toyota rally history, i think that where i read that from. I'm not surehow i mixed that up with regular gt4 owners. Either way i still have alot to learn. researching FTW... it get tedious sometimes

[enderswift]

aha! i knew i wasn't crazy http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...32626&st=80

you CAN convert the awd to fwd. its on celicatech

This post has been edited by enderswift: Dec 20, 2008 - 3:22 AM

[presure2]

aha! i knew i wasn't crazy http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...32626&st=80

you CAN convert the awd to fwd. its on celicatech

yea, but with the trouble and potential problems associate with doing it, its better to just convert a RWD e153 to FWD.
(or get a FWD e153 out of a lexus or camry or solara.)

[hurley97]

However, lots of st205 owners convert their superstrut to regular McPherson w/o any problems. So this kind of leads to the question of why exactly cant we use the gt4 axles if we are using a converted gt4 tranny? Does it indeed still have to do with the difference in length of the control/A arm between superstrut and udsm?

I could have sworn i saw a post online that showed how to convert a gt4 transmission to work in fwd. with that in mind i thought it was really weird that people were having axle issues since i figured everything should just be plug and play with those parts.

so what exactly are you asking?

First question was about converting superstrut to mcpherson and then you're asking about converting AWD to FWD but it sounds like you seem to think they're the same question...

This post has been edited by hurley97: Dec 20, 2008 - 6:52 PM

[lagos]

I knew about keeping the s54, but according to some threads on here, they cant hold the power.

There are a lot of misinformed people who blow out a clutch and think "oh no, my tranny died, yo".
I've been daily driving my swap with an gt trans for 4 1/2 yrs now without any issues.
Pressure2s 5sfte has also been running for that long with multiple track passes.
Supershannons 280hp 5sfte is also using this trans with no problems, as well as many others.

The only confirmed case of a broken s54 has been with Itchyb, who ...1. had a lot of miles and abuse on his car 2. had over 330hp at the wheels.

As long as your making 200-300hp, it should hold up with no problems. Anything above that, you can upgrade to the E series and gain some longer gearing and lsd too. Then, and only then do you need to worry about custom axles.

[enderswift]

hurley:

my original question was why people werent using st205 axles on their swaps, since it IS possible to convert a gt4 trans to fwd with mr2 parts (look on celicatech). no one had an answer so i figured it had to do something with the suspension, thats where I mistakenly assumed that the ss suspensions dictate the axle length. having read that its possible to convert ss to mcpherson (the rally teams did it http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/Toyota_GT4/Celica2.html), I wondered why people wont go with a hybrid ss/mcpherson setup in order to be able to use st205 axles. I was then told that the suspension has nothing to do with the types of axles and that it all depends on the trans. Since converting the gt4 trans to fwd isn't very common, no one considered using st205 axles and thats why no one had an answer to my original question. It was basically my fault for assuming too much and causing all this confusion.

lagos:

I had a feeling the s54 was sturdy, because as you mentioned, alot of people seem to be using them without problems. Thats why for the longest time I considered sticking with the s54 because i was intimidated by converting an e series (especially the axles). But i seem to have figured it out and will most likely go for the lsd e153, chicago winters are rough afterall and every bit helps. Not to mention i spin one wheel ALL the time with my 5s. You could blame that on the tires and suspension but i just feel a 3s would be best with an lsd.

I have checked out the phantom lsd or whatever its called for the s54 and im not too impressed with it ill stick with the e153.

btw, is the factory lsd in the e153 a torsen? or some helical variant?

This post has been edited by enderswift: Dec 20, 2008 - 7:58 PM