Lower Drinking Age? Options

[D-Man]

Has anybody ever said "no thanks that's illegal"?

ROFL!!

[Rayme]

To put it another way - when does the law being age 21 STOP you from drinking? Has anybody ever said "no thanks that's illegal"? Hell when I went to Oneonta for college orientation I was 17 years old. Look at my pics that I posted, I don't look 26, I barely look 21; so imagine me at 17. We had people waving us into bars. I was drinking in a bar at 17 years old and I was invited in.

I was drinking at 16 at an after-dance party with the girls parents there because they knew it was going to happen and wanted to prevent drunken driving.

You can carry a gun at 18 years old, a GUN... please tell me where the logic behind this all is.

Don't ask that question? Theres no logic in politics!

[D-Man]

But alcohol isn't a right protected by the constitution while carrying a gun is, so I guess that's how that one stacks up.

Touche...

What the hell were our fore-fathers thinking

[RickJamesBish]

I agree on the parent's accountability part- mine do the same.

[Cuts_the_Pilot]

legal age is 18 for drinking and gambling in australia.

sux its 21 for you guys.

[cnelson]

JUST SO ALL THE PARENTS ON HERE ARE AWARE....

Theres a new huge crack down on parents who host, or knowingly allow there children to host parties where people underage kids are drinking. "Parents who host lose the most"

Now even with that being said my parents let me throw parties whenever I really like, as long as whoever drinks stays over. And everyone coming knows this.. But it still makes me nervous, for my 19th birthday I had a HUGE kegger.. Now I know some people slipped out who were drinking. I didn't go running after them, had they been in no condition to drive I would have. But having seen some commercials for "Parents who host lose the most" on T.V, well I won't be throwing any more parties.. I'd rather not have my parents be responsible for 30 other kids, and me at the same time.

So now its to the point where even when you think you are trying to be safe and do the right thing as a parents the government still has a foot in the door saying.. "No, No this is bad".

My real question is, when does it end? And when do we get some kind of freedom? If you let your kid drink in your own home, than so be it. The government should have absolutely no say in if its allowed or not.


ALTHOUGH; Pretty much all my friends are 18. So if they get caught are my parents still at fault? Because the law says there legal, they can make there own decisions and look after themselves.. See this is where things get kind of hairy.
(Assuming my parents didn't buy us the alcohol.)

This post has been edited by cnelson: Dec 15, 2008 - 6:27 PM

[RickJamesBish]

But then you can get into a whole other facet of the argument, let's say private (at home) drinking at 18 and publicly at 21.

But that still won't solve anything, it'll just perpetuate the problem to another scale.

[soulshadow]

Most everything is backwards in the US. You can drive at 14 in some areas of the states, but can't drink til 21? So you can operate a heavy motor vehicle capable of killing people but it's illegal to have some beers hmm, right.

Honestly - I think you should be able to drink at 16, drive at 18. This way you learn how to handle alcohol by the time you are driving. At 21, you're 3 years past "adult" and driving is an everyday thing, yet you are new to mind-altering substance. Makes sense.

I've seen tons of ppl going off road, crashing to one another and doing some stupid stuff because they are drunk. The legal age to drive at 14 doesn't mean that they can drive by themself they still need an adult in the car at all times or they will get a hefty fine if caught.

Drinking at any age is not the problem, its what the people do as drunks at the age that results in problems. The law is mearly just a guide line for people to follow so that they don't Hurt themself and others, but if not kept in check or balanced you will pay the price.

I think its ok to drink and get drunk as long as you so do it in your own house!

[LewFX]

i say raise the age of smoking and leave it at 21 for drinking. why do kids feel like they should be allowed to drink anyways. you are KIDS until you grow the hell up and try not to be a college student. Seems like all the kids want to do is grow up too fast and use excuses.

[razor7]

Here's my .02

This is a chart of LD50s. The "LD50" is the dose of a substance that will kill a selected species of experimental animal 50% of the time.

All LD50's are normalized to milligrams/Kilogram of animal's body weight.

"Typical Human Dose" info is taken from various sources, including "Burger's Medicinal Chemistry", "Journal of Psychedelic Drugs", "The Merck Manual", "NIOSH Registry of Toxic Effects of Chemical Substances", cigarette packages, No-Doz bottles, etc.

The NIOSH Registry of Toxic Effects of Chemical Substances also lists most published LD50 measurements, but does so uncritically. It's quite useful as a point of reference.




Just compare Psilo, MDMA, THC, and mescaline to that of Caffeine.

Also, for instance, 46 mg/kg of LSD seems very very fatal compared to the other substances, but that's the equivalent of taking 34,500 hits if you are a 165 pound male. (that is based on 100 mic hits)

This is also one of the most common myths that's associated with Marijuana and driving. This is taken from Erowid;

6. Legal marijuana would cause carnage on the highways

Although marijuana, when used to intoxication, does impair
performance in a manner similar to alcohol, actual studies of the
effect of marijuana on the automobile accident rate suggest that it
poses LESS of a hazard than alcohol. When a random sample of fatal
accident victims was studied, it was initially found that marijuana
was associated with RELATIVELY as many accidents as alcohol. In
other words, the number of accident victims intoxicated on
marijuana relative to the number of marijuana users in society gave
a ratio similar to that for accident victims intoxicated on alcohol
relative to the total number of alcohol users. However, a closer
examination of the victims revealed that around 85% of the people
intoxicated on marijuana WERE ALSO INTOXICATED ON ALCOHOL. For
people only intoxicated on marijuana, the rate was much lower than
for alcohol alone. This finding has been supported by other
research using completely different methods. For example, an
economic analysis of the effects of decriminalization on marijuana
usage found that states that had reduced penalties for marijuana
possession experienced a rise in marijuana use and a decline in
alcohol use with the result that fatal highway accidents decreased.
This would suggest that, far from causing "carnage", legal
marijuana might actually save lives.


Along with another misconception, that Marijuana could be lethal in large doses.

12. No one has ever died of a marijuana overdose

This is true. It was put in to see if you are paying
attention. Animal tests have revealed that extremely high doses of
cannabinoids are needed to have lethal effect. This has led
scientists to conclude that the ratio of the amount of cannabinoids
necessary to get a person intoxicated (i.e., stoned) relative to
the amount necessary to kill them is 1 to 40,000. In other words,
to overdose, you would have to consume 40,000 times as much
marijuana as you needed to get stoned. In contrast, the ratio for
alcohol varies between 1 to 4 and 1 to 10. It is easy to see how
upwards of 5000 people die from alcohol overdoses every year and no
one EVER dies of marijuana overdoses.

While I won't argue any points, I'm just going to leave it off here. Honestly consider what you're doing to your body and it's effects.

-TC

[Cuts_the_Pilot]

what you guys start driving on the road at 14? 16 here

[Muggs]

I won't get started on smoking/military service/driving... but I think 21 is a reasonable age for drinking. I've had my battles with alcoholism on and off since I was 15 or so. Only recently (in my mid-20s) I am able to better control it.

The stuff can be very addictive, especially to youngsters.

[Lil-Joe101]

YEah its 20 to drink and gamble in here in Oki.

[mitchy]

legal age is 18 for drinking and gambling in australia.

sux its 21 for you guys.

yeh and Krudd thinks its smart to deter teenagers from binge drinking by raising the price of pre-mix spirits hahah wat a joke, people i know now go out and buy straight spirits so once theyve mixed a few they just drink it straight, thats reeeaaalll smart.

all countries should use this "if you can drive by yourself, you should be mature enough to buy and drink alcohol"

that would mean i could buy it hahah but ill just have to wait till september 09

[97celiman]

mrgrape...again with the comments

i dunno being 18 i think itd be nice to have a shiner every now and then (blue moon is yummy too ) and i definitely agree with the whole dying for your country mantra-i however unlike many of the kids in my socio economic class of rich white kid suburbia, have never felt the need to go out and get ****-faced, i just dont get how thats fun. the idea of not being aware of my surroundings scares me. Now that being said please dont think the temptation isnt there, my father is a winol and makes, collects, stores, drinks, all types of wine and we have just about and hard liquor you could think of so i suppose if i wanted to i could drink

i like what europe does, drinking wine and beer at 16 and driving, fighting, everything else at 18
i dunno i guess ive been scared straight cuz im to afraid of the consequences, id be the guy who had like 3 beers max then drove all the wasted home (after circling the blocks a few times and asking for "gas" money) i know that if the drinking age was lowered id be able to be responsible with it

my grand total so far is 11 beers, 3 flutes of champagne, and a glass of wine... 3 of those beers the champagne and wine were at the gparents 50th wedding anniversary/reunion/everyone over the age of 21 was out of it and my not-so-together aunt was pouring me real champagne

im just a huge boozer

[mrgrape]

Here's my .02

This is a chart of LD50s. The "LD50" is the dose of a substance that will kill a selected species of experimental animal 50% of the time.

All LD50's are normalized to milligrams/Kilogram of animal's body weight.

"Typical Human Dose" info is taken from various sources, including "Burger's Medicinal Chemistry", "Journal of Psychedelic Drugs", "The Merck Manual", "NIOSH Registry of Toxic Effects of Chemical Substances", cigarette packages, No-Doz bottles, etc.

The NIOSH Registry of Toxic Effects of Chemical Substances also lists most published LD50 measurements, but does so uncritically. It's quite useful as a point of reference.




Just compare Psilo, MDMA, THC, and mescaline to that of Caffeine.

Also, for instance, 46 mg/kg of LSD seems very very fatal compared to the other substances, but that's the equivalent of taking 34,500 hits if you are a 165 pound male. (that is based on 100 mic hits)

This is also one of the most common myths that's associated with Marijuana and driving. This is taken from Erowid;

6. Legal marijuana would cause carnage on the highways

Although marijuana, when used to intoxication, does impair
performance in a manner similar to alcohol, actual studies of the
effect of marijuana on the automobile accident rate suggest that it
poses LESS of a hazard than alcohol. When a random sample of fatal
accident victims was studied, it was initially found that marijuana
was associated with RELATIVELY as many accidents as alcohol. In
other words, the number of accident victims intoxicated on
marijuana relative to the number of marijuana users in society gave
a ratio similar to that for accident victims intoxicated on alcohol
relative to the total number of alcohol users. However, a closer
examination of the victims revealed that around 85% of the people
intoxicated on marijuana WERE ALSO INTOXICATED ON ALCOHOL. For
people only intoxicated on marijuana, the rate was much lower than
for alcohol alone. This finding has been supported by other
research using completely different methods. For example, an
economic analysis of the effects of decriminalization on marijuana
usage found that states that had reduced penalties for marijuana
possession experienced a rise in marijuana use and a decline in
alcohol use with the result that fatal highway accidents decreased.
This would suggest that, far from causing "carnage", legal
marijuana might actually save lives.


Along with another misconception, that Marijuana could be lethal in large doses.

12. No one has ever died of a marijuana overdose

This is true. It was put in to see if you are paying
attention. Animal tests have revealed that extremely high doses of
cannabinoids are needed to have lethal effect. This has led
scientists to conclude that the ratio of the amount of cannabinoids
necessary to get a person intoxicated (i.e., stoned) relative to
the amount necessary to kill them is 1 to 40,000. In other words,
to overdose, you would have to consume 40,000 times as much
marijuana as you needed to get stoned. In contrast, the ratio for
alcohol varies between 1 to 4 and 1 to 10. It is easy to see how
upwards of 5000 people die from alcohol overdoses every year and no
one EVER dies of marijuana overdoses.

While I won't argue any points, I'm just going to leave it off here. Honestly consider what you're doing to your body and it's effects.

-TC

exactly my point

[D-Man]

i however unlike many of the kids in my socio economic class of rich white kid suburbia, have never felt the need to go out and get ****-faced

And people like you are the reason i see no problem with 18 being able to drink.

But i still feel that 16 is too young for UNRESTRICTED drinking & bar scenes. Sorry guys, but i remember all of the stupid shi~ that i did at that age And lord know's i'd be dead in a ditch if i wasn't watching my A~ extra carefully to avoid "seeming" intoxicated; as to avoid getting in any trouble.

[Taskbot]

Hmm I think the drinking age should be lowered. Well at least here. In my experience the legal age just means that minors here have to engage in somewhat illegal activities to get alcohol. I was certainly paying people to grab me a twixer (26er) of vodka when I was 17. At 18 people I knew were making frequent trips to Quebec, where you can buy at 18. So it doesn't seem to protect minors from getting alcohol, which is kind of the purpose of making it a law. Also, its actually easier to find drugs here as a minor than it is to find alcohol. Far easier. Actually its not really uncommon for you to walk outside of a door and find people in the middle of a session and inviting you to join. This is most certainly something to do with the city I live in, but its still pretty interesting. Lastly, no matter what age. The first two years of having alcohol availability from my experience are the years you will drink the heaviest. Up until a year ago, I was considered by definition and alcoholic in that I binge drank 12 or more times a year. I also used to be part of the LD50 club ( > 0.35 BAC). My friends and I would drink a twixer each and THEN go to a bar for 3 or 4 pitchers. Needless to say after experiences like that we've curbed our drinking habits. However most people aren't as extreme* as that and will drink a little more moderately and eventually drink less. Its also Canada so its generally more acceptable to binge drink and I'm almost certain we can handle alcohol better than most, by virtue of our culture.

* Btw by extreme, I think I am basing my definition of off one person I know, who ended up in emergency with 0.60 BAC. He wasn't there for Alcohol poisoning though, we was there because he got a concussion from falling off his porch. After he got back he slept for 3 days waking only to get food and water. It was kind of funny, I'm surprised he's still alive.

[D-Man]

Also, its actually easier to find drugs here as a minor than it is to find alcohol. Far easier. Actually its not really uncommon for you to walk outside of a door and find people in the middle of a session and inviting you to join.

Oooh; i have to X2 this statement. But i always liked drinking more than most other stuff; as a result, after I finaly turned 21; i believe i've done ALOT less of that other stuff (the herbal supliment and pharmasuiticals were gone almost instantly I've probably induldged only a few times a year for the last several years. And it was just because i smelled it and wanted in Even then i didn't sip but a little bit)

Everything else though is completely unrelated.

(why has my spell check stoped working? i know i didn't spell some of those words right... WTF? I swear i'm not high or drunk right now. My CPU is being screwy again. My apoligies for the crap spelling.)

[Legit94GT]

As far as the gun thing goes, yes you can by a rifle at 18, not a handgun, its kinda hard to walk down the middle of the street with a rifle in your hands with out gettting the cops called on you. Handguns are 21.

The drinking age is fine where it is, at 21. It does suck for those of us who are under 21, like me... However i think they should change some of the rules that are around it.

Parents who let their kids(and other kids) stay at their house, supervising shouldn't get in any trobule, that is silly. Kids will be kids, we will get booze and drugs, you just can't avoid it, and thinking you can is just naive. So why are we punishing the parents who are actively doing something to make sure that their kids are drinking in a controlled situation. Key word is parents(or legal guardians)

We give permits to drive, that require you to have a parent or someone older than 21(depending on states) so that the kid can learn to drive with someone who has been there before. Yet when it comes to drinking we punish the older people, I understand that it is breaking the law, and thats what they should change. Not the age. We all do stupid stuff but I think that if we change the laws that would allow for parents to supervise their kids they would be less likely to drink and drive, less likely to drink way to much, and less of chance for girls to get raped and guys to get in fights.

If the bars and clubs let you drink at 16 there would be way way way to much jail bait in those places! If you wanna make it 18 thats one thing, but not 16, that is just way to young.

Just my opinion