4AGZE Swap Options

[mikecelica]

I've been planning on turboing my st for a while now, got all the parts, but after going through all the costs with parts and labor I've come to a total of $3100, which I think is waay too much for 40-50hp (If even that). I wouldnt be getting much horsepower, plus risk damaging the engine, and say goodbye to the toyota reliability. So Im thinking now of just swapping in a 4agze, Ive been reading up alot about this and what i wanna know is why people think its such a difficult swap and that only few people have attempted it? Ive gone through this with a mechanic at toyota dealership that I work at. And he too says its the most simplest of swaps. All i really need is the engine,ecu,wiring harness,4age flywheel with using my 7afe tranny and same motor mounts. Thats pretty much it, unless I put in FMIC, but I've heard they benefit more from TMIC. The 4agze from the Levin from has about 170hp at stock psi (7psi) and at full boost (14psi) it should reach around 190hp or more with some pulleys and an safc. Plus another advantage would be that this engine was built to handle boost so its alot more safe than a 7afte. This mechanic has a 88 corolla gts with the 4agze and an mr2 4agze and they are faast. So I just wanna hear some thoughts on this. thanks

This post has been edited by mikecelica: Mar 14, 2008 - 7:21 PM

[JoKeRkId613]

it is simple. a lot of people just prefer the 3s. be unique and get a 4agze.

[mikecelica]

I tried searching around but had no luck, are there any members on here tha have the 4agze dropped in?

[mikecelica]

any thoughts?

[airfron]

here is an informative thread on a swap that Dr_Tweak did http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...47&hl=4agze

Dickster223 and FAQdaWorld are the only people on here with completed swaps that i know of.

I was planning on the swap as well but am hesitant to be without transportation for however long it may take me to complete it. I guess i'm just procrastinating before actually following through with my goals.

[Hanyo]

swaping a 4agze is not a bad idea, considering there is a whole lot more after market support for that engine compared to the 7afe.

BUT before you get drawn into the swap engine scene, do the math and find out how much it will actually cost to get that engine installed and upgraded.

Dollar for dollar i think it would be cheaper to turbocharge the 7afe, because your not wasting money on swaping anything out. All the parts you purchased are UPGRADES.

Where as a 4agze, the swap will take most of your funds. After the swap you will still need to buy upgrades.

It all boils down to how healthy your current engine is, if your 7afe is new and healthy then turbo charge. Because you have no clue how many miles and condition the 4agze will be in.

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

Heres my .02...

Spend the money you'll be puting into your setup either way in the smartest of places....by purchasing the absolute cleanest 4AGZE clip that you can from a Levin.


Tear the Celica down and tear the clip down, and send out your harnesses to get the wiring done by Tweak since he has already done it in the past. With that out of the way, the most challenging part is out of the way. You can use all your current mounts, transmission, axles, starter, flywheel, just like you said....pretty straightfoward.
From there, all you would need would be a slightly higher duty fuel pump from an All-Trac/GT-Four or N/A 2JZ-GE Supra to make sure you don't run the motor short of fuel, and a FMIC or an aftermarket water to air unit. Keeping the top mounted cooler will soak in ALOT of heat if you keep it....and detonation isn't any fun.




4AGZE is a pretty viable option and it really isn't any more complicated than any other swap. I would say to go for it, without a doubt. 7AFE's and 4AFE's both have a tendancy to get leaky valve oil seals when they hit high mileage, and they have tiny little intake and exhaust runners too which are a limitation when you add boost to the picture. Plus the bottom end isn't nearly as robust on an un-opened 7AFE.

With the 4AGZE, you'll have a supercharged factory setup with a free flowing head with a strong bottom end that you won't ever have to worry about failing....for the same investment. If your power requirements ever change you can either upgrade pulleys, add a turbocharger and twin-charge it, or make it all turbo and beat the snot out of it without any worries.



Good luck.



-Corey

[mikecelica]

With a cusco pulleys the 4agze can make up to 14psi safely. So If you were to turbo it and remove the supercharger, At 14lbs and a t3/t4 50trim it should make well over 200hp?

[jason]

stevenson and i were talking about this swap...

i dont know the weight of a 3s engine or the weight of the 4a, but i presume its significantly lighter.

so if in the end you save yourself say... 200-300 lbs... id say that if you get 200hp outta the 4a compared to 260 with a 3s, i am going to assume that the 4a is going to be pretty close to drag speeds with the 3s.. but with the weight advantage, im also going to assume its going to allow the car to handle much better.

not to mention, if you budget $4,000 (i wouldnt go with an safc for tunning btw) that gets you a good amount of cushion for the swap, and also plenty of room for goodies.

make sure to keep the sc so it can whine like all hell when your on it... i LOVE that sound!!!!

[creis]

I've been toying with the idea of going for a 4age blacktop then supercharging it later down the road depending on the power I want to get out of it. in my case I'm not going for high hp, but a more orginal quick and clean car and of corse I want the 6spd too, I say go for it from what I understand its not a hard swap as you say, although your risking the "toyota reliability" just doing a swap in general

[Culpable04]

the swap is not " bad " for a ST, some people will argue that " its not as powerful as a 3S " and that's true, stock per stock the 3s is a stronger ( HP wise ) motor, but both have good potential. if you plan on keeping the 4AGZE stock ( rated @ ~ 165 hp at crank ) make sure the power will be enough for you, after all us ST guys, we get the joy of ~ 90 hp at the wheels on a healthy engine lol. the 6 speed tranny option is more for bragging rights, I search on different forums and this tranny is weak, doesn't take abuse and can't hold extra power, the tranny is great for N/A engines, a better tranny IMHO is a 5 speed with a hydrolyc LSD from MR-2 and some levin.


I was reading on a 4AGTE set-up using a 4AGZE + silver top intake manifold and custom exhaust manifold + HKS cam shaft + HKS cam gears + supporting fuel up grades, someone on Australia got 245 HP at the wheels. That's not bad,

everything needed can be had for US$1500.00 and if you want more power work on a custom turbo kit, I'd be happy with anything over 200 hp at the wheels, but it'll be some time before I can do anything like this to my car. too much going on in my life at the time.

This post has been edited by Culpable04: Mar 18, 2008 - 10:46 PM

[97lestyousay]

Do you have a link to the 4agte I would really like to see his setup, I am starting a 4agte project
soon and there just doesn't seem to be that much info on turbo builds.

the swap is not " bad " for a ST, some people will argue that " its not as powerful as a 3S " and that's true, stock per stock the 3s is a stronger ( HP wise ) motor, but both have good potential. if you plan on keeping the 4AGZE stock ( rated @ ~ 165 hp at crank ) make sure the power will be enough for you, after all us ST guys, we get the joy of ~ 90 hp at the wheels on a healthy engine lol. the 6 speed tranny option is more for bragging rights, I search on different forums and this tranny is weak, doesn't take abuse and can't hold extra power, the tranny is great for N/A engines, a better tranny IMHO is a 5 speed with a hydrolyc LSD from MR-2 and some levin.


I was reading on a 4AGTE set-up using a 4AGZE + silver top intake manifold and custom exhaust manifold + HKS cam shaft + HKS cam gears + supporting fuel up grades, someone on Australia got 245 HP at the wheels. That's not bad,

everything needed can be had for US$1500.00 and if you want more power work on a custom turbo kit, I'd be happy with anything over 200 hp at the wheels, but it'll be some time before I can do anything like this to my car. too much going on in my life at the time.

This post has been edited by 97lestyousay: Mar 19, 2008 - 11:46 PM

[Culpable04]

I can look for it, I'm also trying to get some info from another guy who has a completely stock 4agze ( expect intake manifold ) with a very basic turbo kit ( no supercharger ) he dyno'ed his engine a couple months ago, and he got 195 hp at 0.8 bar, there is a video of his dyno run on youtube. This engine is installed in a datsun.

when I get time I'll seat down and put a few links together. " leaving for work "

[Culpable04]

youtube dyno run

toymods discussion

I haven't found the other discussion, I'll posted when I find it.

[ILuvMyCelica95]

I have to say I'd LOVE to see someone do this and have a full write up on it.

200,000 miles is sneaking up on me and this option has always been a thought because it's a lot less work then a 3s regarding axles, tranny and mounts. Seeing as I just swapped to a manual I have a lot of fairly new parts in that area and would like to utilize that.

The majority of the site have GTs and most of the swaps we hear about are 3sgte. I'd love to see more people go outside of the norm with a 4AGZE.

So if you do go with this option I want LOTS of details.

cliff notes: DOO EET.

[Culpable04]

The only thing holding me back right now is that I'm in the process of moving, so until I'm established and find a Corolla 1997 to drive around as a beater this will be on hold, this engine completely stock ( internals ) just by adding a turbo you get ~ 200 hp at the wheels, the stock ECU takes boost from the turbo like it was meant to be like that, but It'll run a little rich so some tuning will be needed to have a nice A/F ratio. The only problem I've seen with this so far is the lack of stronger trannys for this set-up, so I'm gonna try to stay ~ 200 at the wheels for daily and ~ 250 for " fun days " for ST guys this would be as easy as putting a 3s in a GT, no more drilling holes for new mounts and playing with axels and such, and the best of all this engine sets ( including a tranny that may come with hydrolic LSD ) for less than US$1600.00 plus shipping. so I'm thinking of US$3000.00 budget for this to cover the extra parts and little things that will come up.

[CelicaST_CALI]

3100$ for turboing????wat are ur prices for various parts,that seems wayyy over..

[jason]

thats 3100 with a new engine and all parts to swap the sc for a turbo. pretty fair to me.

[jesterwr217]

where would i be able to pick up JUST the 4agze engine

[monkey]

it was in various cars from 86-95... i believe it was in a certain prism i think a gsi or something like that from like 90-93 i believe... maybe thats just the 4age... someone correct me if im wrong....

vvvv...this is the engine and the tranny... vvvv

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Toyota-MR2-...tem180224627433


This post has been edited by monkey: Mar 23, 2008 - 6:50 PM