4" intake on 3rd gen 3sgte, disscussion topic! GIVE YOUR 2 CENTS! Options

[presure2]

hey guys, as you know, jim now has the 3rd gen 3s in his car, and after doing some research around various boards, he decided he wanted to try a 4" intake.

now, before you all go nuts, the guys down @ hux racing in florida claim HUGE gains with a 4" over a 3" intake, and have posted some results.

here are a couple "copy paste" deals from mr2.com:

We always figured my street car made at least 280 rwhp. Until we dynoed it on our new Dynojet. The only mods are: our air intake mod 4", Blitz SBC boost controller, our 3" single tip exhaust, & boost cut defeated.

328 rwhp & 316 rwt

This is on a maxed out ct20b, stock ecu, stock injectors, genIII fuel pump, & stock intercooler. This was attained using 100 octane.

heres the dyno sheet:

The GenIII swaps we do I always push them to use our air intake mod since we have seen consistent results using that combo (4" K& N air filter, 4" inlet tube, custom coolant relocator hose).

so, with that in mind, (and the fact that hux racing wants 400$ for somthing they wont even show you a picture of) we decided to give it a shot.

since the inlet of the '20b is only 2.75" (yes, i know its a mm mesurement, but for all intents we all use a 2.75" reducer anyway..lol) we had to find a way to reduce the 4" pipe down to that.

since we couldnt find anyone who makes a 4" to 2.75" reducer, and the fact that i thought it would be kinda flimsy, if we could find one, i headed over to burns stainless to see what they had.

they carry 2 diffrent styles of "trumpets" (reducers) a longer style, and a shorter. so we got the 4" to 3" trumpet, and because of the limited room we have to work with, we chose the shorter style.
heres a pic of what it looks like, with the coke can for size reference.




once i got that in, and the coupler to mate the pipe to the turbo, i went out to the garage, and cut the pipe to set it up:



thats the basic idea, i just need to weld a couple bungs for the IAC and catch can, and weld it up.

im hoping we can get back to back dynos at some point real soon with a 3" intake vs this one, the only thing i need is a 4" k&n, or a 3" ebay special so the tests will be the same with no variables.
if everything shakes down right, we could do this on both dustin, and jims cars, to get more results on diffrent cars, to see what kinda results we can truly get.


discuss!!

[pipes]

I tried it after being @ ur house sounds cool only problem I think is heat because its steel it absorbs all the heat so after awhile your sucking hot air.....from your picks your getting air from the factory spot? I found that leaving a headlight out to be effective as engine bay temps were cooler...I ended up returning to factory because I'm trying to escape heat me and my buddy fabbed up a cold box were gonna fit it on sat hopefully I'll let you know

This post has been edited by pipes: Nov 26, 2008 - 11:18 AM

[DEATH]

im hoping we can get back to back dynos at some point real soon with a 3" intake vs this one, the only thing i need is a 4" k&n, or a 3" ebay special so the tests will be the same with no variables.
if everything shakes down right, we could do this on both dustin, and jims cars, to get more results on diffrent cars, to see what kinda results we can truly get.

To keep the variables more in control you can get the cheap Spectre filter from just about anywhere and it comes reduced from 4" to like 2.5" in three steps. If you used that one filter with the adapters the results would be more controlled and correct.
Edit: This one:
http://www.spectreperformance.com/#CATALOG.8132
Cheap and they work pretty good. Just for this experiment it would be perfect

This post has been edited by DEATH: Nov 26, 2008 - 11:32 AM

[RUNNIN-LOW]

k..knowing that running 20psi with stock computer and everything, the car should be doing about 290 to 300 to the wheel on race gas. not sure what the true max of the ct20b is but lets say its 22psi, a intake should only (if it works right) put about 5-12 gain in horse (<----after stock intake), correct me if im wrong but im not totally sure about the horse gain is. but i cant see at 20psi(is stock ct20b max) making a 40-50hp gain with just a 4inch intake??? but sayin at at 22psi you make 305-315hp then u add the 4inch intake and make 328 to 316 then thats is believeable.
so what im getting to is that with a 4inch intake you can make a reliable 40-50 hp gain damn!!, but yeah testing it would be great.
i myself was planning on making a 4inch icebox and see what the differents is.

ok here is a crazy story..my buddy with his 92 civic with a swap b18c use to have a injen cold air intake right..he went and got it dyno at 218 to the wheel. after it got stolen he decided to make his own as a joke untill he got a replacement. so he went and got 4inch pvc pipe and fab his own up. decided to go to the dyno for fun since we all was going to get our dyno and amazing things was that when he went and dyno he made more power with the pvc intake then the injen one..228hp

so it could happen but im not sure if u can really get 40-50 horse gain...

This post has been edited by RUNNIN-LOW: Nov 26, 2008 - 11:53 AM

[presure2]

yup, now that you say that, i actually have those reducers from the first filter jim sent.
that works.

[DEATH]

NP - glad to help. This also reinforces what I've said before about 2.5" intake piping vs 3" - this is just taking it one step further. What size IC piping would you suggest after this mod?

[presure2]

I tried it after being @ ur house sounds cool only problem I think is heat because its steel it absorbs all the heat so after awhile your sucking hot air.....from your picks your getting air from the factory spot? I found that leaving a headlight out to be effective as engine bay temps were cooler...I ended up returning to factory because I'm trying to escape heat me and my buddy fabbed up a cold box were gonna fit it on sat hopefully I'll let you know

yea, aluminum would be a better choice for piping, but unfortunatly i dont have a tig welder (and dont know how to weld with it for that matter!) so this is pretty much what i can do for now.
we do have options as far as coatings ect to try and help with that, although to be honest, im not too worried about it, we've been using this style of intake on swaps and 5sftes with great results so far, and at SOME point down the road i really would like to get into a tig setup.
a cold box is a great idea, i need to start working on some ideas for somthing.

NP - glad to help. This also reinforces what I've said before about 2.5" intake piping vs 3" - this is just taking it one step further. What size IC piping would you suggest after this mod?

ohh i dont know on that, since this is a 3rd gen setup, with factory IC, there is no piping. lol

but i would imagine that guys doing somthing like this would be going big anyway, so i would guess 3" ic piping.
i think of course the gains would be better with a larger turbo ect. that would utilize the extra flow potential, especially those with a larger turbo inlet.

[lagos]

It will be really interesting to see your dyno results, Manny.

Did they ever post a before dyno on the same car?
Its kind of odd to think that a bigger intake would give any kind of gains, because the actual 2.75in turbo inlet is aways going to be the bottle neck. The real gains seem to be from the fact that they were able to hit 24psi of boost on the ct20b. I know from talking to califcarm, he had to use helper springs on his wg just to be able to run around 20psi on the street, and on the dyno he claimed to be able to hit a little bit less then that. So perhaps the real gains from this intake might not be seen at pump gas boost levels but only when pushing the turbo to its limits with race gas or a lot of alcohol injection.
Either way, thats a really nice intake.
Damn you 3rd gen guys and your lack of afm....damn yooooouuuu.. lol

Do you have a link to the original thread this came from?

[presure2]

k..knowing that running 20psi with stock computer and everything, the car should be doing about 290 to 300 to the wheel on race gas. not sure what the true max of the ct20b is but lets say its 22psi, a intake should only (if it works right) put about 5-12 gain in horse (<----after stock intake), correct me if im wrong but im not totally sure about the horse gain is. but i cant see at 20psi(is stock ct20b max) making a 40-50hp gain with just a 4inch intake??? but sayin at at 22psi you make 305-315hp then u add the 4inch intake and make 328 to 316 then thats is believeable.
so what im getting to is that with a 4inch intake you can make a reliable 40-50 hp gain damn!!, but yeah testing it would be great.
i myself was planning on making a 4inch icebox and see what the differents is.

ok here is a crazy story..my buddy with his 92 civic with a swap b18c use to have a injen cold air intake right..he went and got it dyno at 218 to the wheel. after it got stolen he decided to make his own as a joke untill he got a replacement. so he went and got 4inch pvc pipe and fab his own up. decided to go to the dyno for fun since we all was going to get our dyno and amazing things was that when he went and dyno he made more power with the pvc intake then the injen one..228hp

so it could happen but im not sure if u can really get 40-50 horse gain...

yea, i would imagine the huxs' results are the extreme, but the idea is an interesting one, so we figured why not give it a shot for ourselfs, and see what we can come up with.
if everything works out, we should be able to get some solid info on the diffrence between the 2 are, and hey, i do think we still have a stock 3rd gen airbox laying around, we could prolly try that as well!

It will be really interesting to see your dyno results, Manny.

Did they ever post a before dyno on the same car?
Its kind of odd to think that a bigger intake would give any kind of gains, because the actual 2.75in turbo inlet is aways going to be the bottle neck. The real gains seem to be from the fact that they were able to hit 24psi of boost on the ct20b. I know from talking to califcarm, he had to use helper springs on his wg just to be able to run around 20psi on the street, and on the dyno he claimed to be able to hit a little bit less then that. So perhaps the real gains from this intake might not be seen at pump gas boost levels but only when pushing the turbo to its limits with race gas or a lot of alcohol injection.
Either way, thats a really nice intake.
Damn you 3rd gen guys and your lack of afm....damn yooooouuuu.. lol

Do you have a link to the original thread this came from?

yea, i've thought of that too art.
jim really wants to push the stock 3rd gen setup for a bit till he saves up for his kit he wants a bit down the road, so we'll see what happens as we go along..
heres a link to his baseline run thread, it has a link to the thread the stuff i copy/pasted is from.
http://www.mr2.com/forums/gen-3-3s-gte/Toy...dyno-graph.html

going back out now to finish up, ill post more pics later.

[RUNNIN-LOW]

It will be really interesting to see your dyno results, Manny.

Did they ever post a before dyno on the same car?
Its kind of odd to think that a bigger intake would give any kind of gains, because the actual 2.75in turbo inlet is aways going to be the bottle neck. The real gains seem to be from the fact that they were able to hit 24psi of boost on the ct20b. I know from talking to califcarm, he had to use helper springs on his wg just to be able to run around 20psi on the street, and on the dyno he claimed to be able to hit a little bit less then that. So perhaps the real gains from this intake might not be seen at pump gas boost levels but only when pushing the turbo to its limits with race gas or a lot of alcohol injection.
Either way, thats a really nice intake.
Damn you 3rd gen guys and your lack of afm....damn yooooouuuu.. lol

Do you have a link to the original thread this came from?

lagos why dont u run 3rd gen electronic like mr.wot on celica tech??u get rid of the afm and stuff. i have a 3rd gen ecu going on sell soon haha..but yeah ill have to try this out with my t3/t4 upgrade and see what power i can produce.

[lagos]

I don't think the 3rd gen electronics would be worth the cost as I wouldn't really be gaining anything other then a map based setup.
My plan is to ditch the factory ecu altogether and install megasquirt. That way I would have a map based system and the ability to datalog and tune.
For now my SARD rom tuned ecu is keeping me happy

This post has been edited by lagos: Nov 26, 2008 - 12:57 PM

[RUNNIN-LOW]

ok i know we are going off topic a little but really quick..i have a couple buddys running megasquirt and they said it is hella confusing..but some do say it isnt at all..i dont know the honda crome is doing really ncie for me now. just need to figure out the 2-step haha..

[lagos]

Ill send you a pm so we dont go way offtopic here.

[presure2]

ok back on topic
here are a couple finished pics.

[RUNNIN-LOW]

not bad pressure damn!!!your going to have to make me one too!!!!looks good man those welds are awesome looks like it came like that haha..did you guys relocate the battery too or is the battery stil going to sit there??

[presure2]

not bad pressure damn!!!your going to have to make me one too!!!!looks good man those welds are awesome looks like it came like that haha..did you guys relocate the battery too or is the battery stil going to sit there??

battery is in the trunk.
we relocated it back when they had the 2nd gen motor.
im sure eventually jim will want to have the battery tray taken out, its only a matter of cutting a hand full of welds.

[RUNNIN-LOW]

stupid question but how come u didnt make it come straight out?? any reason..have u tried it out or even started the car and see if it idles different or anything?

[presure2]

stupid question but how come u didnt make it come straight out?? any reason..have u tried it out or even started the car and see if it idles different or anything?

i like puting there vs straight out cause there it at least gets a little cool air over the filter from the fender well.
it shouldnt idle any diffrent, in theory the turbo should be louder when it spools.
im still waiting on the IC pump to come in to really drive it. ive driven it a bit, but nothing crazy. yet! lol

[_Jim_]

LOL, I didn't know getting rid of the battery tray was an option, well that thing doesn't stand a chance now LOL

[lagos]

The finished intake looks really good dude. Very bad ass and mean looking.
Did you get the 1/2in piping from burns as well?
That was one thing that I always had trouble sourcing when I was making my intakes.