3SGTE head on a 5SFE Block - 6G Celicas Forums

3SGTE head on a 5SFE Block

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Oct 7, 2003 - 7:53 AM

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QUOTE ("MR2 board")

How to put a 3S-GTE head on a 5 SFE
I know this is a double post but it might be worth it for some of th NA owners.

Before we start talking about turbo charging, I want to let 5SFE owners know that they can also use the 3S-GTE head for NORMAL ASPIRATED application, but it would require custom made pistons to raise the compression ratio back to at least 9.5:1 or higher, about $550.00 and a custom made exhaust.

Now lets talk turbo ……Remember ……. There is no such thing as cheap turbo charging.

Things to think about before you start this project:

1.How much do I want to spend?
2.How much boost am I going to want?
3.How am I going to control all of this? …. Yes engine Management. I used an Autronic SMC

Engine Requirements:

1. Complete 3S-GTE head with cams, cam gear, timing belt tensioner, 3S-GTE cam belt and a complete inlet manifold..
2. Turbo setup. CT26 with exhaust requirements or what ever you want
3. 3S-GTE head gasket such as the TTE available in a 1.2 and 1.4 mm thickens
4. 3S-GTE oil pump. I am not sure if oil pressure and flow for the 5SFE oil pump is the same as that of the 3S-GTE, therefore my suggestion to use a 3S-GTE oil pump. Better safe than sorry.

Note: If you are going to build a high output motor I strongly suggest you get a set of connecting rods available from Pauter (www.pauter.com) and a set of Forged Wiseco Pistons available from any Wiseco dealer or me. Wiseco require dealers to order a minimum of eight pistons so it might be a good idea for potential 5 SFE turbo builders to do a Group Purchase.

Oil Supply for the Turbo:

This can be done by taping a 10 mm (3/8) elbow into the oil channel on the filter side of the block between the last two main crankshaft journals. Make sure the oil channel is thoroughly cleaned afterwards. There are also other methods to explore.

Now for the real thing…
Presuming that the 5 SFE engine is removed and stripped to the bare block.

1. Thoroughly clean the top of the block. Make sure it is 100% clean
2. Now give the cleaned area a coating of Mechanics Blue
3. Correctly place the head gasket you are going to use on top of the block
4. With a scribe, mark the positions of the water ports.
5. Remove the head gasket.

I used the following procedure to remove metal from the block. If you do not feel comfortable to do so, take the block to your local engineering works and let them do it for you. It should not cost more than say $60.00

Tools Required:
1. Center Punch
2. Slow speed drill
3. 5 mm Drill bit
4. 4 mm Tungsten Carbide burr

Procedure:
1. Center punch the areas to be drilled (these are the water port areas you marked).
2. Now with the drill and 5 mm bit, drill out all the areas marked. Normally two holes per water port. Make sure that you do not drill beyond the marked areas.
3. With the drill and 4 mm tungsten carbide burr remove all the remaining metal
4. Have the block “decked” by your local engineering works.
5. Assemble the engine as if it was a 3S-GTE
6. Make sure the oil supply and drainage, to and from the turbo, is sufficient.

Note: Get a 3S-GTE oil pan or have yours custom fitted with a return point for the turbo drain.

One more note.

The 3S-GTE-exhaust manifold fits the 5 SFE head. That means that you can use the very available CT26 turbo as a bolt on, on your 5 SFE engine, without going to a 3S-GTE head. How much HP? Don’t know but I am sure that 300 is fairly easily achievable…

Last but not least:

For you ever criticizing ass-holes, throw your best punch and let me see what you can come up with.

Does any of you guys know if 3SGTE head really fit on to the 5SFE block?

--------------------

=(

Oct 7, 2003 - 11:29 AM
Kwanza View Member Profile Enthusiast Joined Apr 8, '03 From NorCal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%)	It'll fit... but it's not as easy as that DIY makes it sound. There will be a lot of custom work, wiring, mechanical, and what-not. Not to mention, the 5sfe Block/crank isn't as tough as the 3sgte block/crank, so the .2 liters displacement isn't gonna be a very large advantage. It wouldn't make for a very reliable turbo application unless you have the block and crank fully built for boost. Even if you decide to go n/a...the 3sgte head isn't as good of an n/a head as a 3rd or 4th gen 3sge head... which have different cooling ports, and valve seats. The 3sgte head is built for boost... an n/a application is not practical.

Oct 7, 2003 - 11:57 AM
NEVERSTOP View Member Profile Enthusiast Joined Nov 4, '02 From Davenport Iowa Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%)	I have never tried it but I have held a 185 head up to a 5sfe head and there alot different. The 185 is alot wider than the 5s one .... would it bolt up.. I dont know didnt hold it up to the 5s block but gut feeling tells me no.. not without alot of mods to the block... really think the bolt pattern is way off too, mostly cuz the 5s cams are really close together where as the 185's are spaced farther apart. my 205 head looks like it would be easier to make work with a 5s block but the bolt patterns are the same for the 185 and 205 heads so if one work so will the other but the cams are slightly differnt in the 205 so it might work better with the 5s pistions, etc... I could measure the bolt pattern this weekend of the 3 different heads and would be able to tell you if the patterns would match up but I am NOT gonna rip off my head on my 3sgte to see if it will work so dont ask. -------------------- 99 project version 3.0.. hello SEMA 2010 =)

Oct 7, 2003 - 12:52 PM

Kwanza

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QUOTE (NEVERSTOP @ Oct 7, 2003 - 9:57 AM)

I have never tried it but I have held a 185 head up to a 5sfe head and there alot different. The 185 is alot wider than the 5s one .... would it bolt up.. I dont know didnt hold it up to the 5s block but gut feeling tells me no.. not without alot of mods to the block... really think the bolt pattern is way off too, mostly cuz the 5s cams are really close together where as the 185's are spaced farther apart. my 205 head looks like it would be easier to make work with a 5s block but the bolt patterns are the same for the 185 and 205 heads so if one work so will the other but the cams are slightly differnt in the 205 so it might work better with the 5s pistions, etc...

The blocks are nearly identical... but the heads are completely different. Yes, the 3sgte heads are much wider, I believe 40mm something wide with true dohc driven by 2 cam sprockets, hence the 'GE' designation. The 5s 'FE' head is much more narrow, a sort of "cheater" dohc driven by a single cam sprocket, but the blocks are nearly the same. It will bolt up... with some minor modifications I'm sure... the head width is just that... differences in the Head design... however... I'll say again...the blocks are nearly identical.

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