 7AFE weak engine????? |
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 Nov 26, 2003 - 1:25 AM
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 Enthusiast  Joined Nov 4, '02 From Hecho en la Republica Dominicana/Living in NJ Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%)  |
Why do alot of people around here think that the 7AFE is weak and can't handle boost? I just want to know your view points on this? Do you think its cause it's and N/A engine? Is it because it comes from the factory with only 110 hp? is it beacuae you know someone that has boosted the engine and it has blown up? or any one of the many other reasons you might have?
I just really want to know what all you guys think, that say the 7AFE is weak and people shouldn't spen anymoney on it other then a intake or exhaust system.. -------------------- |
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Nov 26, 2003 - 1:26 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Apr 14, '03 Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
Dont worry bro, they have no idea what their talking about. Pretty much just what they heard in another post and it happened to stick with them. We shouldnt spend any money on either engine if it isnt a damn swap.*thumbs down*
This post has been edited by 5sfeTurbo: Nov 26, 2003 - 1:28 AM |
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Nov 26, 2003 - 2:14 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Apr 8, '03 From NorCal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
It all depends on how you measure 'weak'. Tuning-wise, the 7AFE is designed and built as an economy motor, therefore its tuning capability is very limited. When turboed, that limit is reached fast, and that limit can be broken fast. The fact is, the car doesn't look like 110 hp, or even 135 (USDM Versions), so people will always hope for more out of it. I personally wanted more out of my 7A and I did spend a lot of money to make it faster. I went the n/a route and learned a hard lesson. After spending, thousands of dollars in engine mods, I was saddened by the fact that my fast looking car still got its ass handed back to it by mildly modified Civics and Integras. And yeah... I was much faster than any n/a ST or GT on this board (I ran mid 15's in the 1/4 mile). All in all, the all-motor route isn't worth it, IMO. Now comes the turbo route. The deal with the turbo is the long-term or short-term effects. Just ask zipstrips (sorry if that spelled wrong). With a custom application, you have to be on top of EVERY little detail to ensure the correct function of the system. A small mistake can mean an empty wallet and a dead car. However, the turbo results are usually very good, although can sometimes be fairly costly. If I remember correctly, Jwalk (something like that) had some turbo problems also. Now, my point here is, do what you want to attain the power that you thirst for. Just be careful and try to learn from everyone else's mistakes. I'm not disregarding motor swappers either, John, Coomer, Ray, on and on. Motor swaps are NOT EASY. Mentioning them is easy, actually doing, is not. The deal here is, what sort of power do you want? If 110 is ok with you...fine. If you want a bit more, Intake, Exhaust, Pulley... fine. If you want even more, turbo, build up, tune... fine. If you want even more... swap. However, money, knowledge, and skill are limiting factors. As far as the 7A goes... its limits has yet to be heavily pushed, however, I'll gurantee you that with a compression ratio of 10:5:1, with all bolt-ons, and poor tuning, you're bound to lose pushrods, valves, rings, or crank bearings sooner or later. As far as the turbo set-up, turbos are turbos. Problems come if you don't pay attention to detail. Know, or at least, keep modest limits in mind. As for me... no, I don't consider the 7AFE weak. If you truely understand how engines make power, you'll appreciate that power a lot more. The 7AFE has power where it counts, and I rather enjoy driving my celica compared to my Civic or my truck. 110 hp or not, It gets 34 mpg with a broad torque band and that's all that really matters. My car is not fast, yours probably (US people at least) aren't fast either. The deal is, if you enjoy driving it, then what's wrong with it? Appreciate, instead of always wanting more. And 5sfeTurbo: I do know what I'm talking about, and I guess some of the things I've said did seemingly bash the 7AFE. As clearification, I'm not bashing the motor, I'm bashing those that ask for too much and realize too little. Heh, you sound almost hypocritical with that post... /rant This post has been edited by Kwanza: Nov 26, 2003 - 2:15 AM |
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Nov 26, 2003 - 2:34 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Feb 10, '03 From Connecticut Currently Offline Reputation: 11 (100%) |
Should i change my sig to: i am a nerd who doesnt know anything about Celica's with a silly hood scoop?
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Nov 26, 2003 - 1:13 PM
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 Enthusiast Joined Aug 30, '02 From Anaheim, CA Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
CR for the 7afe is 9.5:1.
not the best for turbo, but its definately not high up there. turboing does bring good results, but its custom work, and you ahve to know what you are doing when it comes to custom work. i had my oil return line break too, but i noticed the problem right away, pulled over and cut the engine t inspcet the problem. i check under my hood daily. i check my plugs once a week to get an idea of whats happening inside. the 7afe is a good engine, by far not a performance engine. the two reasons why it only has 105-115hp are the economy head(small valves, different angles) and the CR. the head is the main reason why the 7afe makes for a lousy NA power motor. it is the limiting factor. the main difference between a 7afe and a 16 valve 4age besides the displacement is the head(the internals might be different, i know the crank is). a head swap, while very costly, would not only net good gains, but also make gains from other mods more meaningful. i have driven 4k miles with my turbo setup. no major problems. if you dont beat the engine to death, check it often, let it warm up and cool down you could make a 7afte setup very reliable. corolla guys do it all the time. the 7afe may not have power, but it is still a Toyota engine, reliable and hard to kill. turboing will shorten lifespan, but if you do it right, only 15% of lifespan will be lost. -------------------- 1994 Celica GT4 WRC Edition
@gt4.wrc on Instagram |
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Nov 26, 2003 - 1:15 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Sep 9, '02 From Scranton, Pa Currently Offline Reputation: 7 (100%) |
my 7a was a tough little bish... i finally learned why i had an oil problem.. it was actually an internal motor problem, yet i still ran a few thousand miles with it, and it still yeilded good vacuum so i never though it was a motor problem.. i probably pushed the envelope a little too far with mile but it was FUN while it lasted.. i got a good amount of kills with it. like my friends VR6 no1 could keep up with, gave a hand full mustangs a kill or a good run. the 7a has not yet been really pushed by many, theres a lack of info on the motor out there too. 7age is possible, i built a 7afte so that is possible, so a 7agte is very possible too. there are internals to be had by cross referenceing parts but its not very know about yet. theres a huge arra of grey in there. i was afraid to swap at the time so i went 7afte.. i learned enough now that i fell i could do a swap.. im still gona have problems but im not as afraid of it. it was a great but expensive learning experience. once i see how bad my internals are i might just put her back together, or save the parts for a future project, try it again, maybe in a corolla this time.. who knows.
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Nov 26, 2003 - 1:18 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Sep 9, '02 From Scranton, Pa Currently Offline Reputation: 7 (100%) |
too add to 97... the g head swap alone doesnt yeild good results, add higher compression and its a different story.. theres little info about this out there, but if you take the time looking you could find some.
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Nov 26, 2003 - 1:37 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Apr 8, '03 From NorCal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
I know what... =]... Twas reffering to my compression ratio with a machined head...;] |
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Nov 26, 2003 - 2:02 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Aug 30, '02 From Anaheim, CA Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
o, i see now, lol zip what was the internal problem that you were having? -------------------- 1994 Celica GT4 WRC Edition
@gt4.wrc on Instagram |
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Nov 26, 2003 - 6:19 PM
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 Enthusiast Joined Aug 30, '02 From Michigan Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
Custom 3" Cold Air Intake Custom 2.25" Catback Exhaust ASP Underdrive Pulley Hp Racing Ceramic Coated Header w/ Custom Downpipe Apexi S-AFC (version 2) Custom Short Shifter that doesnt add up... where is the "thousands of dollars" in a custom exhast and intake, S-AFC, header, UD pulley, and DP? unless you payed for all the installs, theres no way that adds up to "thousands of dollars", unless you have more than you listed in your profile. --------------------  Believer, you'll leave her, in leaving them all No but I don't buy it Like anything you do, as anyone you are Cause I'm... Ten Speed, of God's Blood & Burial |
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Nov 26, 2003 - 6:53 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Sep 9, '02 From Scranton, Pa Currently Offline Reputation: 7 (100%) |
well i was pushin oil out of the PCV system, according to the DSM guys, i have bad piston rings/ or a cracked/ warpped piston!!! and i was driving it many miles like that not knowing... i got the thing in my driveway now, im gona lift it and work on it slowing.. winter is here and working outside in the cold sucks... but i will cause im stupid like that... i plan on lifted it and going in through the oil pan/valley pan.. to see it the crank is damaged.. ill pull the head afterwards and than i can check for block damage... if i can rebuild it cheaply with some 4a pistons i will, that is unless i get a buyer for my kit. than ill just pull what im selling and say good bye to the 7a. if i get a full time job this spring instead of school i might just go 3sgte and keep the 7a kit for a future 7a driven vechicle.. so ya, i have plenty of options with this but money/ school bills, and other things are coming up so quick i gotta sell or quit school this semister to do a 9-5 till the fall... |
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Nov 27, 2003 - 12:51 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Aug 30, '02 From Anaheim, CA Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
man thats a lot of work, and being on the ground wont help
a quick way to check the pistons is take out the plugs and look at them, you wont see much but if one is really really bad you will notice. but the oil pan and valley thing is a good idea. with the pan off, you can easily see one of the rods and a piston, but with the valley off, im sure you could see everything except the top of the pistons good luck, dress warm. -------------------- 1994 Celica GT4 WRC Edition
@gt4.wrc on Instagram |
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Nov 27, 2003 - 11:49 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Apr 8, '03 From NorCal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
I've posted in the past about my first 6th gen...right? Anyways, that car had an accident and the motor blew. All of the heavy motor work (thousands of dollars) happened around late 2000-2001. I bought another ST (my current car) and swapped over as many parts as I could. My curent ST is a daily driver which only has old bolt-ons that I had in the past.
I started gettin bad knocks in the head and then started gettin bad compression in 2 of 4 cyilinders. I think what was happening was my pistons started tapping my valves, which fawked something up. I fried my first set of rings and dinged a few valves mostly due to neglect. After fixing that, My crank bearings went out; I don't really know from what, probably the knocking which lead to crank imbalance, and the motor eventually froze up. Fun ehh? |
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Nov 27, 2003 - 12:09 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Nov 4, '02 From Hecho en la Republica Dominicana/Living in NJ Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
sounds like you were having GM type problems... but i guess that happens when some one tries to go the N/A route.. but then again you might just gotten one of the toyota engines that feel into that red zone... -------------------- |
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Nov 27, 2003 - 1:30 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Aug 30, '02 From Michigan Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
hmm... sorry i had never seen you talk about it. if you get some free time, could you PM me what your setup was? im just very interested in seeing what kind of a setup you were running... thanks! -------------------- Believer, you'll leave her, in leaving them all No but I don't buy it Like anything you do, as anyone you are Cause I'm... Ten Speed, of God's Blood & Burial |
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Nov 27, 2003 - 1:37 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Apr 14, '03 Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
Kwanza, I dont know what you are talking about. In no way shape or form was I reffereing to you. In anycase why dont we all just do what we want to our motors keep it all safe and stop with the whole "wasting your money" pitch. Both engines will handle boost w/o overkill and the 4age and 3sgte are both outstanding motors but its not for everyone to swap. To each his own.
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Nov 27, 2003 - 1:53 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Apr 8, '03 From NorCal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
I guess you could call it that... My problems were mainly because I pushed it too hard with too little tuning. The only tuning I ever had was a bit of dyno time tuning a SAFC... however, that was not enough. I didn't anticipate a lot of variables, little things such as running octane booster on premium fuel to limit the knocking, re-checking my valve clearences, to match the valve job, redo my timing, to take advantage of my modified fuel curves, etc. It could have been a successful build, however, my neglect and stupidity costed me. As soon as I finished the head work, I raced it. Even after a serious failure (rings and valves) I still raced it. I'm pretty sure crank balance was the reason the bottom end froze up. Either it was from the tapping, or maybe even the ring installation. I still really don't know for sure. And K2... you'll have PM in a bit. |
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Nov 27, 2003 - 2:04 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Apr 8, '03 From NorCal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
I understand you weren't singling me out, but I just need to make things clear for you. Until you have ripped apart your car and put it back together, you cannot offer any *REAL* advice aside from repeating what other people say. That's what makes you sound like a hypocrit. I'm not for swapping, I'm not for turboing, I'm not for anything. I have experience in other vehicles dealing with swaps, builds, turbos, etc... and I'm simply saying, many people will talk the talk, but when it comes to walking the walk... they will typically come up short. What I say is only warnings. Learn from mistakes... when you don't... and bad things happen... wasting money is the deal. Obviously you don't really know cause you probably have never really build your car yet. No one that has done really heavy mods will say they haven't wasted more money than necessary because of little mistakes. Just ask... Ray, Coomer, Mike, 97sccelica, zipstrips, on and on. |
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Nov 27, 2003 - 2:23 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Aug 30, '02 From Anaheim, CA Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
yea, a lot of people talk about swapping, and no with just celicas, they talk about it with all cars and a wide variety of engines. best to do when you want to mod a car is research, and while you research you save up money. oh and my turbo setup keeps nickle and dime-ing me. when i first got the setup running, it cost me $1500. now im somewhere around $2150 i think im getting close to having it run good(im keeping it rich to prevent problems). im getting a new turbo in the next few days and this december im getting a fuel pump and front mount. then after some dyno tuning im done, i hope. next thing i spend money on: my dog, he needs back surgery 
-------------------- 1994 Celica GT4 WRC Edition
@gt4.wrc on Instagram |
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Nov 27, 2003 - 3:40 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Sep 9, '02 From Scranton, Pa Currently Offline Reputation: 7 (100%) |
yes, mistake happen, all part of the learning process... without mistake there would be no room to improve |
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