 3SGE head on 5SFE block?, can it be done?? |
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 Oct 8, 2003 - 2:35 PM
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 Enthusiast  Joined Sep 12, '03 From NB Canada Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%)  |
has anyone done this or heard of someone doing this?
Will the pistons interfere with the valves? anyone know what needs to be done? I know of a guy who did it in a corolla forum, but i thought i would ask here too. |
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Oct 8, 2003 - 2:44 PM
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 Enthusiast Joined Apr 28, '03 Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
Sure it'll work. Will just need a custom ECU and a few other odds and ends.
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Oct 8, 2003 - 2:51 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Sep 12, '03 From NB Canada Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
what type of gains do you think it would produce?
I know you need the3Shead and cam gears n stuff.. and a timing belt but from what I dont know... what about head gaskets, what should be used? |
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Oct 8, 2003 - 3:19 PM
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 Enthusiast Joined Dec 26, '02 From Alabama Currently Offline Reputation: 2 (100%) |
look at club4ag.com's tech section.
I personally have been thinking about a 20v head swap, I just don't know what problems I'd run into as far as ECU goes... Jon I wonder what would happen if I tried to run a 20v head off of a 7a ecu  This post has been edited by FallenHero: Oct 8, 2003 - 3:22 PM |
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Oct 8, 2003 - 9:58 PM
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 Enthusiast Joined Aug 30, '02 From Maryland Currently Offline Reputation: 8 (100%) |
You would have to swap the wire harness just like the 3sgte swap. Here....To get the ball rolling.
-Bryan- -------------------- Member of Team 5sfTe
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Oct 9, 2003 - 12:18 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Apr 8, '03 From NorCal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
The ECU is not the only thing that will kill a 20 valve swap... scrapping the $$$ for the custom rods to run the 20 valve pistons is not gonna be easy, nor would the ECU tuning and the wiring... the 7AFE ECU will not work...fuel maps and signals are completely different between FE heads and GE heads... especially since the 20v isn't an OBD car, so I don't think it can use a US 7AFE ecu... |
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Oct 9, 2003 - 10:53 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Sep 12, '03 From NB Canada Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
Thanks for the help guys.
so does the 3SGE harness hook up to the 5SFE ECU? What year 3SGE head should be used on a '94 5SFE block? is the compression going to have to be raised? How much should be shaved off the head? lol, lots of questions.  thanks again! |
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Oct 9, 2003 - 11:41 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Apr 8, '03 From NorCal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
No... the 5SFE Ecu cannot run the 3sge head...
Which ever you want...they all fit, but each brings forth different levels of difficulty and different amounts of power (135hp, 160hp, 180hp, 200hp, 210hp)...
No...you don't have to raise the compression. Shaving the head would sorta defeat the purpose of putting a 3sge head on the 5S block. You want the 5S block for the .2 liters advantage...shaving the head, you'll lose a bit of displacement...
IMO, you seem to not really know what you're asking or wanting to do... or what sort of work this involves... I mean, it's really a lot easier to source an entire SS2 clip than it is to find just the head+various parts...and then rebuilding it as a custom application on a 5sfe block... that is gonna be much more difficult than swapping in a 3sge... |
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Oct 10, 2003 - 6:17 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Sep 12, '03 From NB Canada Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
yes, you are right, I'm not exactly sure what I want to do, but thats why I'm asking so many Q's. Time and effort are not an issue with me, money could be depending on what happends.. but I honestly thought it would be easier to swap the head than the entire engine. I know where I can get a 4th gen (USDM) celica 3SGE head, for a joke, but what kind of gains would that head give? thanks for the help Kwanza. |
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Oct 10, 2003 - 6:26 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Apr 8, '03 From NorCal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
There was only one 3sge motor ever offered in the US. All of the others are overseas versions that must be imported... The US version came in the 87-89 Celica GTS's... 130 some odd hp If i recall correctly. They were the first gen models of this motor. |
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Oct 11, 2003 - 4:58 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Sep 12, '03 From NB Canada Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
Yes exactly. My friend works with a guy who has two 4th gen GT-S's sitting in his back yard, rusted to $hit, 1 runs, one doesn't (no starter), I could probably get the head off the non running one, for nothing, and fix anything that need fixing for nothing. So what kind of gains do you think I would see with this head installed? Andre |
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Oct 11, 2003 - 11:50 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Apr 8, '03 From NorCal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
I doubt you'll get any big top-end gain... I mean, you'll get low-end from the .2 liters advantage, but that generation of the 3sge wasn't that great... it made about the same or less power than a 5sfe... |
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Oct 12, 2003 - 5:31 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Sep 16, '02 From Somewhere around Chi-Town Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
3sge head from a 4th gen GT-S? im looking for a word to describe that... oh yea, pointless. to do a good valuable, power gaining headswap, it will usually cost around as much as swapping the entire engine out. so unless u find some super great deal on a nice head and all the other ridiculous things u need for it to work, it is more productive to swap the engine. of course there are the people who want to be different and think the only way to do that is to do something that no one else has done and it ends up costing more and putting out less power, but its original. i do believe u would be the only guy with a 6th gen with this particular headswap. but is it worth your time and money? prolly not. with that head its hard to say if u would be doin any better than u are now. if u want power save up for a swap or a turbo or somethin like that. or, a much easier option have ur celi be ur show car and buy a car that actually is fast. thats gonna be my way of doin it.
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Oct 13, 2003 - 2:44 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Sep 12, '03 From NB Canada Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
yeah, actually I think it made about 5 - 10 hp less than the 6th gen.. I just thought that maybe since it's a GE head that maybe I would see some gains...  But thats why I asked, because I really had no idea. Thanks for all the input bro!
easier indeed. damn I need money! 
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