Issues with my sisters car and I am stumped. Options

[bccentaur3]

So we just got done replacing my sisters motor, because she bought the car for a grand thinking it was a great runner without having me look at it prior to the purchase. My dad brought it home and I knew right away it was running on only 3 cylinders. Did some tests and found out indeed it was only running on 3 cylinders. So I decided to pull the motor and open her up, finding out there was a hole in the oil pan and the rod in cylinder 2 snapped right in half. So then my dad had to throw another 500 into the POS and picked up a 5s at a breaker yard.

Her car was an auto and she wanted a manual so I decided to swap parts over from a parts car I have to do the manual swap. Manual swap went without as hitch until now, the master clutch cylinder is busted, but its an easy fix.

The real issue is the fact that the motor won't start. We did a water pump and timing belt job on the motor and made sure timing was correct. I checked and double checked.

The motor turns over just fine with a bunch of power. I checked the compression on the cold motor and it has 180 across the board. The breaker yard wrote on the valve cover that the motor had 215 psi in each cylinder so I would assume that it from a warm motor.

I checked for fuel and we ARE getting fuel.

Checked for spark in the day time but couldn't see any spark. Tested the coil and its within factory spec.

Swapped the igniter with a known good one and still nothing. Now when I checked for spark I remembered getting shocked. But couldn't see any signs for spark.

Checked the dizzy rotor when the motor was set at TDC and the rotor was pointing at firing order 1. I really don't know what the hells going on. The ground is in for the injectors. But I am a bit worried with the injector plugs. I forgot which order they went and I may have switched up a plug, but would that really keep the car from starting?

The ecu we are using is the stock auto ecu. I wired up the stock auto harness to fire without the clutch. All I get is crazy turn over. Its turning over like crazy with mad compression yet won't fire. What could be the issue?

I really need this car running. I really don't want to redo the timing. How can the timing be off? The crank I set at TDC and the rotor was right on firing order 1. Now I haven't checked the cam to see if it was at TDC, but I just assumed since the rotor on the dizzy was pointing in the correct direction the cam is too.

I have worked on the car for 3 days in a row 10 hours a day and I am tired. Since the day she brought it home to now I have all this and now it won't fire. Someone help me diagnose this POS car. I knew my dad should have waited a little for a slightly more expensive car and have me look at it before he bought it.

[bccentaur3]

BUMP!! I need some insight asap.

[bccentaur3]

could it be the grounds? IIRC one of the grounds that go from the negative terminal to chassis smokes when we try to start to car.

[jimmykay]

I don't know if this is possible, but are the injectors plugged into the correct order? If you have them reversed then you may be firing gas during the exhaust stroke.

about the ground, maybe when you got shocked you created the ground. it wouldnt hurt to double check to make sure the grounds to the chassis are good.

I'm just grasping at straws trying to think of what it could be.
all I'm thinking is air, fuel, spark.
Good luck

[trdproven]

Are you sure you are getting spark? Is the ECU in working condition? Water pump?

[Batman722]

how did you wire it to start without the clutch (clutch start switch) ?

even if you put everything in you would still need to wire it up, or at least join some wires together.

[bccentaur3]

I joined the 2 wires at the transmission plug. So the motor would turn over without the clutch peddle.

How could the water pump affect the motor not running? I tightened all the grounds and same issue. The car was running prior to putting in a new motor. It just wouldn't make sense for the ecu to die from sitting for a couple of days.

Still if I plugged the injector plugs in different order the motor should still fire because theres fuel going correct?

Oh and I resolved the smoking ground wire issue, it was because the big ground that goes from the battery to the trans was a little loose.

[Bitter]

are you getting injector pulse? is spark firing at the correct time? (use a timing light when cranking)

[bccentaur3]

I just checked my wires. 3 and 4 was mixed up. Silly me... Thats what happens when you work long hours on the same car to get her up and running right. But I get solid spark now, just ran out of fuel. So it wouldn't start because of no fuel. I'm going to put a couple of gallons in tomorrow to see if she will finally fire up.

[Ryouxrs]

glad to hear u might have it figured out, and yes injector timimg is just as important as ignition timing, if its off it wnt run. let us know how it goes tom.

[jimmykay]

good luck, I hope it starts today for you

[bccentaur3]

so put some gas in it and now nothing. I know I'm getting fuel because I pulled the feed line and fuel squirtted. Checked the coil and I was getting spark there.

Could it be the dizzy itself?

[rjbibeau]

did you forget the notorious ground on the back of the IM....do the plugs look like their wet...then that means they are operating...I have helped my buddy acouple conversions in his mazda cars and we put the gear selector in neutral for hte car to start

This post has been edited by rjbibeau: Apr 1, 2009 - 8:03 PM

[bccentaur3]

Sh!!!T IIRC she had it in park before we dissasembled everything. The plugs are uber wet and smell like fuel. I really think its the cam getting air in there. I swore I had spark from wire in the first cylinder and today no spark there.

[Bitter]

clear the flood (dry plugs and crank with plugs out and fuel disabled) and recheck for spark.

[bccentaur3]

OkaY I will do that first thing in the morning. I remember reading some where that if the coil gets spark but theres no spark at the plugs it could be a bad ignitor. I know I have a working one. I actually have a spare one too.

So If I am getting spark at the coil, the ecu and everything else is good and its just a matter of the cap and rotor then correct?

When I am at TDC the rotor is at 1. So I don't see how the timing is off. Its been 3 days since we put the motor in and the engine hasn't been running since.

I'm stumped. Compression is 180psi across all cylinders. getting spark at coil. Plugs ARE wet though, will dry them off.

Could it be from my sister leaving the car in park prior to removing everything?

[njccmd2002]

im a noob in this, but what will park have to do. The original auto tranny is off right. dont some autos only start if you hold the brake pedal as well?

[bccentaur3]

Yeah I heard that too.

I thought it didn't matter either... I mean the shifter is off and trans is off.

I guess The ecu probably doesn't even know that the engine is turning over. I know I am getting fuel to the injectors, because the plugs are wet. I know the coil is good since I can see spark and also checked resistance. They are still in spec. Maybe a half ohm off but that shouldn't hinder the performance too much.

I'm just not getting spark at the plugs right now. Last night I swear on everything I saw spark at plug wire one when I had it pulled off. Checked for spark at the plug today nothing. I also just put 2 gallons of gas into the tank.

Would timing be off even if I checked over and over again when putting the motor back together? I mean when the crank is at TDC rotor in the dizzy is at 1 position.

I'm the type of person who can't rest sleep or eat until I figure something out.

[Ryouxrs]

it doesnt matter when your doing a timing belt that the dist. is at 1 it matters that the cams are lined up with the crank, there should be a mark on the cam pully to show this alignment, but even if u are a few teeth off it should atleast start.

[bccentaur3]

^ i know that... I made sure the cam was at TDC and the crank was at TDC when I did the belt job. I also figured that if I was off a tooth or 2 it should start...

I'm going to swap the ignitor one more time and see what happens.