turbo beams??, turbo beams Options

[paul52]

hi
ive been reading a lot of this...i recently own a beams rep top engine for my AT180
the engine is totally swaped..finally
heres my doubt...i want to turbo my beams...i know its a high compression engine...so it need low compression pistons
but ..does anyone know who can make me some forged pistons? what else should i need besides that? vvti have to be removed?
from what ive read i know there are 2 succesfull turbo-beams..the hks and..a guy i think hes from uk thought and altezza-black top and 3sgte pistons wont fit...=( any ideas?
does anyone have some info about this project?
thanks in advance
paul =)

This post has been edited by paul52: May 17, 2009 - 1:23 AM

[azian_advanced]

but if you look closely to the pic of the HKS Beams celica, the vvt was removed. basically without any means of how the vvt works, or ability to control it, it makes tuning very difficult. i'm sure you can slap a turbo kit and it will run at low boost, but you may not get the most out of the engine... btw i'm speaking out of speculation.

[Cuts_the_Pilot]

you could leave it high compression and run low boost

or put low comp pistons in it like you said. Any 3sgte forged low comp piston will fit. eg. ACL.

[Dragondog]

doing this to the beams will it still out pwr the (stock) 3sgte?.....wont it lower the beams hp putting lower comp. pistons in it....iv had plans to do the same but every 1 told me its not worth turboing unless u just want to claim that u have a turboed beams....from my understanding the beams is ment to be straight engin, changing its insides will result in hp and torque loss then adding boost will just bring it back.....so from what ppl here told me its not worth turboing......

[delusionz]

I wouldn't mind VVT-i on my engine...when toyota added vvt-i to their turbocharged performance motors (1jz & 2jz) the maximum torque went up about 1/3rd reached at only half the revs as before...

fitment of the w2a intercooler to the beams engine would he arse though... and i dont like the idea of 2 metres of fmic piping

[crankyelbow]

A low boost turbo beams would spool very very quickly... and handle enough boost to put down alot of power

[Dragondog]

how well will the beams head work swaping it on the 3sgte?

[delusionz]

Buy me one and I'll let you know

[Cuts_the_Pilot]

turbo high comp beams=good spool good off boost performance, cant up the boost any more then 7 or so psi for fear of blowing holes in pistons and possibly fncking rods.

turbo low comp beams=less responce, little less power off boost, but can up the boost to very high numbers (like 20 psi and more for 8.5:1 comp) and pretty well endless in its possibilities.


dont worry about going fmic because the ammount of "lag" or "loss of responce" so to speak is so little you cant really tell.

at the end of the day though people stop using vvti in heavily modified 1 and 2jz's and also with nissans with their versions of the same technology (s14 and onwards silvias/200sx) for example and of course rb25 and 26. Because it causes tuning issues and in modified cars the need for the variable cam timing becomes less needed as we are more concerned with power and not so much driveability (note this is a generalisation and doesnt relate to all modified car owners so no one bitch about that statement please)

So when you pushing big numbers and not using your vvti anymore all your expensive beams is is a 3sge with slightly more aggressive cams and a shiny red rocker cover.

This post has been edited by Cuts_the_Pilot: May 20, 2009 - 12:42 AM

[Rusty]

So when you pushing big numbers and not using your vvti anymore all your expensive beams is is a 3sge with slightly more aggressive cams and a shiny red rocker cover.

so your better off with a 3SGE (IIIgen) for the high power NA route. how much bigger are the BEAMS cams? (III Gen In:252deg Ex:240deg) & compression goes from 10.3:1 to 11:1

your better off getting more agressive cams rather than getting the VVTi when tunning a ST205/3SGTE

paul52 if you want to go turbo & keep VVTi I recommend the "turbo high comp beams" but I also say yes for a high reving screaming NA engine

[delusionz]

why would you disable vvt-i? i'd just change the kick in point from 4.5k to about 3.1k (just above highway cruising rpm) with an aftermarket controller.

[Cuts_the_Pilot]

im only assuming the beams cams are slightly more agressive, have no evidence to prove this, just an assumption, if anyone has the duration and lift figures of any or all gens of the beams engine ill interested to know. Remembering the beams doesnt have adjustable valve lift, just timing.

People disable the vvti in big power engines, and im not talking about average jo blogs, companies like hks and top secret, for reasons i can only assume for reliability, maybe it cant keep up with the revs, or handle the more extreem conditions that come with a higher power/combustion pressure engines etc, as its designed to make driveability and emissions and efficiency better. Again modifiers are less likely to worry about those things. I can only speculate individuals reasonings but i reckon reliability has a big part to play, just chuck on some adj cam gears and dial them in to when you want max power and your done.

[Dragondog]

iv read that the 3sgte was basicaly a replacment of the 2jz.....is that correct?.......fixed up enuff the 3sgte can put out so much more then really wanted in a fwd street car.......as the beams can only go so far plus its hard to find aftermarket parts for the beams as to the 3sgte......if beams is already droped in car i would leave it as is and just go straight motor....imo adding turbo will only decrese the life of that great motor.........if u plan on having boost anyways then its best kept at low boost...if ur wanting high boost and plan to lower comp. then u mite as well go with a 3sgte....(note to presure if im mistakin something plz correct without the trash talk thx)

[Rusty]

im only assuming the beams cams are slightly more agressive, have no evidence to prove this, just an assumption, if anyone has the duration and lift figures of any or all gens of the beams engine ill interested to know. Remembering the beams doesnt have adjustable valve lift, just timing.

I'll look into this today.

why would you disable vvt-i? i'd just change the kick in point from 4.5k to about 3.1k (just above highway cruising rpm) with an aftermarket controller.

ok but VVT-i is continously changing throughout the rev range, thats why its call VVT-i

[Cuts_the_Pilot]

the early vvti are crude and only choose between a few pre determined points, so it kind of steps between 2 or 3 positions.
Newer ones are a variable and have infinite possibilities of positions relative to crank degrees.

[Rusty]

2. gen 3SGE
In: 244deg, 8.5mm lift (timing 7/57)
Ex: 244deg, 8.5mm lift (timing 57/7)

2. gen 3SGTE
In: 236deg, 8.2mm lift (timing 8/4
Ex: 236deg, 8.2mm lift (timing 56/0)

3. gen 3SGE A/T (170ps):
In: 240deg, 8.7mm lift (timing 7/53)
Ex: 240deg, 8.2mm lift (timing 53/7)

3.gen 3SGE M/T
In: 252deg, 9.8mm lift (timing 7/65)
Ex: 240deg, 8.2mm lift (timing 53/7)

3.gen 3SGTE
In: 240deg, 8.7mm lift (timing 7/53)
Ex: 236deg, 8.2mm lift (timing 50/6)

BEAMS 3SGE (black or Red???)
In: 248deg,
EX: 248deg, 8.56/8.31mm lift

[Cuts_the_Pilot]

good work rustus, interesting to note the difference between manual and auto gen 3 3s-ge

[Rusty]

plus if your using the head I think you need the block, since black top VVTi have a oil port that goes up to the head use in VVTi, but I dont know about the red top

[paul52]

ive been in exams i didnt have time to log in and chat hehe =)
so...keep it like that.. and turbo with low boost something like 3 or 4 psi?
-will ACL forged piston from 3sgte fit? im kinda sure that oem 3sgte pistons wont.. and rusty..well its also a posibility a high comp beams...i wanted to stayed NA but after better cams and those stuff compression will be more high(thought 13:1?) and will need high octane fuel..where i live max octane is 97..

[Cuts_the_Pilot]

If you reckon OE pistons wont fit what makes you think acl ones will?

either would do fine, but obviously acl being a far better choice.