4age silver top or 4agze?, serious about it Options

[Stambo]

I've been thinking about getting a different engine but not sure. Don't just say 3s swap and be done with it. I like the 4a series because they are such a legendary motor and free reving.

I'm going to be rebuilding an engine in my college mechanic course and i figured why rebuild a 350 when i can rebuild the engine that i actually will use in my car. Since either engine isn't to expensive, i would have money for some upgraded internals. I'm really only hoping for around 170-200whp.

My main question is. Which engine do you guys think would be better for autox? Supercharged would be sweet because all of the torque is right there. But, the silver top would be sweet because of the high revs it can take. I have the money but i really can't decide. I've heard the silvertop is a great for autox and the 4agze is great for street use.

[keison2000]

I've been thinking about getting a different engine but not sure. Don't just say 3s swap and be done with it. I like the 4a series because they are such a legendary motor and free reving.

I'm going to be rebuilding an engine in my college mechanic course and i figured why rebuild a 350 when i can rebuild the engine that i actually will use in my car. Since either engine isn't to expensive, i would have money for some upgraded internals. I'm really only hoping for around 170-200whp.

My main question is. Which engine do you guys think would be better for autox? Supercharged would be sweet because all of the torque is right there. But, the silver top would be sweet because of the high revs it can take. I have the money but i really can't decide. I've heard the silvertop is a great for autox and the 4agze is great for street use.

Where are you taking your classes at?

[Cuts_the_Pilot]

ide be going gze for sure, 6gc is a pretty heavy car for a 1.6 to lug around so ide be after all the torque i could get.

[95CelicaST]

If you want 170-200whp out of a 20V it will require a set of aggressive cams and a standalone ems. Even then its unlikely to hit 170.

[Culpable04]

4agze has a lot more potential for less money.

to build a 200+ hp NA 4a cost a lot more than to build a boosted 4a that will yiled more power.

I would swap a 4agze, get it running, work the bugs out, then delete the supercharger and install a turbo.

just to give you an idea,

4agte ( 4agze based ) with GT28rs can make close to 300 Whp with the right tuning.

[Stambo]

I'm taking a toyota course at a technical college by me. We get the chance to rebuild an engine for a grade so i figured why not a engine i could actually use.

Culp, so you think just get the engine ready to go in the bay and what not? You think it'd even be worth putting that pulley upgrade on it before the turbo just for the time being?
With that gt28 you thinking stand alone?

[Culpable04]

the stock ECU can handle turbo pretty good, you need a piggy back to control the bigger injectors, the better piggy back / EMS you have the better the tuning and thus more and safer power.


the best way would be to install the turbo before the engine goes in, so you have to drop it only once, but if it has to be done in stages, leave it stock and work the bugs out, then pull it out and install the turbo. no need to waste money on a pulley.
a pulley would get you close / to 200 whp which is still consider slow for the weight of a celica. This is coming from a guy with a 70 hp 7afe automatic.

BTW, you would want to use a e58 tranny from a toyota Levin, it comes with LSD and it has long gears which are great for turbo.

[Stambo]

that should be the tranny that comes with it, no?

[Culpable04]

if you buy an mr2 engine set ( easier to find ) no it doesn't, it comes with an older version of this tranny ( no LSD )

[keison2000]

So Culp
Would it be a waste of money to turn a 20v 4a/ silver top into a turbo charged monster. I guess I would have to admit a gze would be nice, but I like the extra 4 valves that comes with the 1.6. Would turboing the silvertop reduce it's revving capabilities

[Stambo]

i was planning on getting the ae101 4agze which i think correct me if i'm wrong outa the levin's/corollas with the LSD.

[Culpable04]

So Culp
Would it be a waste of money to turn a 20v 4a/ silver top into a turbo charged monster. I guess I would have to admit a gze would be nice, but I like the extra 4 valves that comes with the 1.6. Would turboing the silvertop reduce it's revving capabilities

that has been done sucessfully, it just takes a better tuner to get the power out of it safely and more tweaking with the engine internals to make good power ( different pistons to lower CR, and stuff )
the 4agze comes forged from factory so it can take a decent amount of boost in stock form.

i was planning on getting the ae101 4agze which i think correct me if i'm wrong outa the levin's/corollas with the LSD.

you are correct.

what year / version ? big port ? small port ? are you planning to get.

Unlike most people, I like the small port ( newer ) 4agze.

[keison2000]

I was looking to go with the 4th gen 4a 20v. Can you fill me in on the differences of smallport and bigport. which has the most potential. Does the gze perform well during high revs....

[keison2000]

I got the difference of the ports. I would have to go small port.

[Culpable04]

the 4agze doesn't do much at high rpms as the supercharger is taking the power from the engine, the higher you go the more resistance is for the supercharger to spin, thus taking more power of the engine, if you go turbo, the 4ag (T ) e will be at high rpms, it will just lack that kick at low rpms since now you'll have to spin the turbo to get power, where the supercharger is always there. but if you get an efficient and well matched turbo this will be almost neglect able.

[keison2000]

I know some people have twin charged their 4agzte.. What do you think about that? Would the twin charge method allow me to always have the power on tap while being able to just a lil higher
I know it seems like I'm asking a lot of questions, but I'm getting the info to make my decision. I want to get this going by the spring to be ready for summer fun...

[95CelicaST]

A twin charged setup is a nice balance, because you get boost right from the get go from the supercharger, which will carry you into the turbocharger's boost. You'll still have parastic draw in high rpm from the supercharger, and it is difficult to work out a proper method of plumbing the two units together.

Ultimately it is probably best left with a supercharger/pulley (if you can even find the sc12 pulley) for a modest DD, because your power is down low.

Personally, I would toss the supercharger and turbo it. If you don't go over the top with a monster turbo you'll be able to hit full spool in the 3-4K RPM range and make plenty of power.

[Stambo]

I was planning to go with the newer 4agze, which is the ae101. I've just heard the comp. is a little higher i think 8.9:1

[keison2000]

Thanks 95celist. If I do decide to go with the gze a turbo would go on there almost in definitely. This will just be my street machine though. I was thinking though wouldn't a 20v 4a breathe a lot better than a 16v 4a... In a year or so, it'll be an import GT4 for the track.....

[95CelicaST]

A 20V would "breathe" more, due to a 3rd intake valve and better head design, but the 20V's CR is 10 or 10.5:1. You would need to drop the compression down a bit, and if you wanted to run anything more than 5lbs of boost you would need new connecting rods and pistons. It's just too much money for a motor that is meant to make power between 6K and 7K rpms.

An AE101 DLI 4A-GZE would be where I would start.