4a Head on 7a Block???! Options

[Dennisj1]

Hey Guys just looking for some info on a combination of head and block.

Where I'm from we have a few cars with 4afe/4agze running between 13 and 14 seconds on the dragg strip which I find verry cool.

So, I was wondering if my 7afe with automatic transmision can be swapped with the following: 4a (black/silver top) 20 valve head on my 7a block and a manual transmission.

1. Can I first swap the head only and leave the auto tranny?

2. With some modifications like changing sparkplug, intake, injectors, tranny etc (except turbo and nos) would I be able to run between 13/14 seconds on the dragg strip?

3. Would this conbination cost a lot of money?

4. Is the combination of 4a head on 7a block called frankenstine?

Just looking for some ideas, appreciate the help. THX!!!

[95CelicaST]

Use the search function and look on Google for a 7A-GE or 7A-GTE.




1. Yes, but you're going to need some sort of EMS to run everything.

2. No. Not in a million years.

3. Yes. Read below.

4. A 4AGE head mated to the 7AFE block is called a 7AGE.


You won't be putting down 13 second quarter mile times with just a head swap. You're going to need a turbo to get you there. I believe a member here (Nik) said he spent somewhere in the area of $16,000 on his 7A-GTE and now that motor is for sale for $5,000 or $6,000.


You would need a LSD put in your transmission or else you'd never effectively get the power to the ground.

This post has been edited by 95CelicaST: Oct 4, 2009 - 11:42 AM

[97lestyousay]

4k

A fraction of the cost to build.

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...mp;#entry802034

[Dennisj1]

Thaks for the info guys. I'm not an expert so can u explain to me what EMS and LSD does?

And I know of a car that has 4a motor non turbo that runs quarter mile at least 14.50 How is that possible all motor?

[97lestyousay]

ems is a n engine management system ECU standalone or the 4a ecu can be used
with a manual tranny if I remember correctly. Lsd is a limited slip differential which
means both tires are going to spin not just the one with the least resistance.


Info under 5age and 7age

http://www.club4ag.com/technical_main.htm

This post has been edited by 97lestyousay: Oct 4, 2009 - 12:57 PM

[Dennisj1]

lots of info!!! THX!!!!!

[95CelicaST]

And there might be an all motor 4A that runs a 14.5, but not a Celica. It comes down to power/weight ratio. I'm sure a 4A put in a go kart can hit insane 1/4 mile times, but only because of the power/weight ratio being really high.


A 130WHP 4AGE (silvertop, for closest power example) in a 2800lb Celica (I'm being awfully generous. This would require a bit of weight reduction) has a power to weight ratio of .0464, which might be better than a stock 7AFE Celica, but the same motor in a 2300lb (curb weight, per OEM specs) AE86 Corolla has a power to weight ratio of .0565, which doesn't look like much change, but it's actually quite a bit. The closer that number is to 1, the faster you're going to be.

Take another example - a Lotus Exige. Same 2ZZ-GE motor from the 7th gen GTS, only the Lotus weighs in around 600lbs less. This is why a 180hp 1.8l all motor car can keep up with much bigger, higher HP cars. Like a 350Z. On paper the 350Z is faster, due to higher HP, but in reality it's power to weight ratio is substantially less, making it slower.

Lotus Exige - .0906
Nissan 350Z - .0638


So in a long winded answer - it doesn't matter what others pull on the strip with the same motor. You're heavier than them, so you will be slower.

[97lestyousay]

A 130WHP 4AGE (silvertop, for closest power example) in a 2800lb Celica (I'm being awfully generous. This would require a bit of weight reduction)

I am not sure where you are coming up with the weight of the celica , isn't this your old car?
From page 19 this thread
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...4927&st=360

Oh, and by the way, my car weighed 2,520 lbs. with a spare, jack, my sub, enclosure, two amps, about 40 lbs. worth of loose stuff (blanket, laundry, detailing stuff, camera gear) in the trunk, and almost no gas.

[attachment=1007:car_with_weight.jpg](yelli celi shot on digital scale)

I should weigh all the stuff I took out of the bay and see how much it weighs next time I go home.

This post has been edited by 97lestyousay: Oct 4, 2009 - 2:05 PM

[95CelicaST]

I was going by manufacturer info. It's much easier to find that information than looking up the TRUE weight of the car and still get my point across.


And the Yelli Celi was much lighter than most Celicas. All of the engine stuff removed like power steering and all associated parts, all of the AC stuff, etc. Plus no moonroof and other fancy things like that.

This post has been edited by 95CelicaST: Oct 4, 2009 - 2:15 PM

[97lestyousay]

I was going by manufacturer info. It's much easier to find that information than looking up the TRUE weight of the car and still get my point across.


And the Yelli Celi was much lighter than most Celicas. All of the engine stuff removed like power steering and all associated parts, all of the AC stuff, etc. Plus no moonroof and other fancy things like that.

Well again I am not sure where you are getting your info.
You must be weighing it with your gf inside

From a 1997 Celica brochure
in lbs

st coupe
std 2395 / auto 2475

st hatch
std 2415 / auto 2495

gt hatch
std 2580 / auto 2640

gt vert
std 2755 / auto 2815

[95CelicaST]

I was going by manufacturer info. It's much easier to find that information than looking up the TRUE weight of the car and still get my point across.


And the Yelli Celi was much lighter than most Celicas. All of the engine stuff removed like power steering and all associated parts, all of the AC stuff, etc. Plus no moonroof and other fancy things like that.

Well again I am not sure where you are getting your info.
You must be weighing it with your gf inside

Oh damn!

I was posting from my Cell phone, so I googled it and got this:


SPECIFICATIONS:
1995 TOYOTA CELICA GT CONVERTIBLE

Base Price $ 24,798
Price As Tested $ 30,005
Engine Type I-4, dohc 16v, smpfi
Engine Size 2.2 liter/132 cid
Horsepower 130 @ 5400
Torque (ft/lbs) 145 @ 4400
Wheelbase/Length 100"/177"
Transmission four-speed EC automatic w/overdrive
Curb Weight 2820 lbs.
Pounds per Horsepower 21.7
Fuel Capacity 16 gal.
Fuel Requirement Unleaded regular (87 oct)
Tires Goodyear Eagle GT+4 all season
P 205/55R 15 87Z
Brakes vented disc/disc, ABS optional
Drive Train Front engine/front drive


And if I recall correctly, the sticker on the inside of my door frame says something around 3000

This post has been edited by 95CelicaST: Oct 4, 2009 - 2:58 PM

[Kwanza26]

I was posting from my Cell phone, so I googled it and got this:


SPECIFICATIONS:
1995 TOYOTA CELICA GT CONVERTIBLE

Base Price $ 24,798
Price As Tested $ 30,005
Engine Type I-4, dohc 16v, smpfi
Engine Size 2.2 liter/132 cid
Horsepower 130 @ 5400
Torque (ft/lbs) 145 @ 4400
Wheelbase/Length 100"/177"
Transmission four-speed EC automatic w/overdrive
Curb Weight 2820 lbs.
Pounds per Horsepower 21.7
Fuel Capacity 16 gal.
Fuel Requirement Unleaded regular (87 oct)
Tires Goodyear Eagle GT+4 all season
P 205/55R 15 87Z
Brakes vented disc/disc, ABS optional
Drive Train Front engine/front drive


And if I recall correctly, the sticker on the inside of my door frame says something around 3000

So you're picking the heaviest 6GC possible to generalize about weight? The vert roof and all of the added reinforcement to the body = more weight. GT's are in the neighborhood of 2600-2700 pounds... ST's are around 2500. Mine was just over 2500 pounds, weighed at the track years ago... with 17 in rims and a 3/4 tank of gas. As far as the gvw (gross vehicle weight... the one on the door) that's the manufacture's estimate for normal vehicle load, which includes a full tank of gas and average weight passengers and what not.

To answer the OP's post... you're not gonna get a 7AG hybrid of any type to run 13's in the 1/4 n/a... unless you're a professional engine builder with a load of cash. with forced induction... not too hard.

[Dennisj1]

DAMN YOU GUYS DO HAVE A LOT OF INFO!!!

Now that you mentioned weight, the car with the 4a motor i'm talking about is a starlet and is has only the driver seat and the dashboard in it. Thats why it can go 14.5 sec on the dragg strip.
http://www.curacaodrag.com/modules.php?nam...g2_itemId=33403

What was the perpose of the yeli celi when you removed all those components in the bay? Did you use it to drive around and showing off (without power steering) or was it to dragg only?

Many guys that have the 4a motor in small cars are interested in my engine for the blok. So i was wondering if I can use the block at my advantage, but you guys made me realise that it would cost a bit of money and the weight is also a big issue.

I would want my car to drive fast, but still be able to cruse around with my gf once or twice.

[SwissFerdi]

2800lb Celica (I'm being awfully generous. This would require a bit of weight reduction)

I know my motor's different, but why? Mine weighs 2409.

[nik]

if you wanna drag get a different car

[95CelicaST]

Factors like fluid levels, junk in the car, sunroof, etc. will make every car weigh differently.

Kwanza, I was just generalizing. Feel free to pick anything else apart, but the overall point was a lower power to weight ratio.


Dennis, The Yelli Celi was built by the owner/administrator of this forum - Coomer. In the FAQ's you'll find a very long thread about the engine bay renovation. In my opinion, since the engine bay was shaved and tucked that power wasn't important, and that it was a show car. I bought it a couple of years back and a combination of electrical problems and bills forced me to reluctantly sell.

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=44927

This post has been edited by 95CelicaST: Oct 5, 2009 - 5:24 PM

[nik]

if you still wanna do this 7ag turbo or na

use the corolla ae86 light weight and RWD

[SwissFerdi]

Factors like fluid levels, junk in the car, sunroof, etc. will make every car weigh differently.

Well of course. I would assume that any junk would be removed at weighing, and that fluids were at full or at least necessary levels...gas is another variable. I do have a sunroof. But 400 pounds is a lot and a huge difference.

[97lestyousay]

Generally the ae86 is about 2200-2400lbs the celica is 2450-2650 lbs so generally unless you are comparing the
hella heavy vert, it is about a 250lb difference. My ae92 is roughly the same weight as the ae86 and it feels heavier
than the celi on the road. I wash it a lot less than the celi though.