Richee3's Progress thread., Wilwood BBK installed. Options

[stephen_lee]

i had good startup still even though the sensor was bad. with the sensor unplugged, though, i had ****ty cold startup, and it ran like crap till it warmed up, then was okay.

good test, warm up engine, unplug CTS. test drive. you will know if thats your issue cause the ecu will go into failsafe and assume the engine is at operating temp.

[richee3]

The catch is, the motor runs fine before it's warmed up. After it's warmed up, it starts having problems. So there's definitely a difference in how it runs between open and closed loop. Which, again, implies a sensor since the motor relies on sensors after it's warmed up. The problem is determining which sensor. MAF, O2, and TPS are good. coolant temp probably isn't an issue since the motor knows when it's warm.

[SwissFerdi]

Guy, just replace the farking coolant temp sensor already.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Sep 7, 2011 - 12:40 PM

[stephen_lee]

there are only a few sensors the ecu relies on for proper operation:

map/maf
CTS
IAT
O2
TPS
cam/crank position sensors

you have another 3sge. i'd try swapping these with it till one changes your symptoms.

bolded sensors are affected HEAVILY by temperature.

This post has been edited by stephen_lee: Sep 7, 2011 - 5:53 PM

[richee3]

there are only a few sensors the ecu relies on for proper operation:

map/maf
CTS
IAT
O2
TPS
cam/crank position sensors

you have another 3sge. i'd try swapping these with it till one changes your symptoms.

bolded sensors are affected HEAVILY by temperature.

I can rule out a couple of those already, due to different reasons. The MAF is brand new, TPS has been replaced and voltage checked, and the O2 is closed loop. The CTS I can rule out pretty easily because of a couple of reasons. First and foremost, the BEAMS only uses one CTS- if my gauge is working, then the CTS is still working. Also, the BEAMS only develops issues after it's warmed up- therefore, the ECU must know when the motor has warmed up, otherwise it wouldn't know when to leave open loop and go to closed loop. Nonetheless, I'll give it a chance and replace it anyway. Worst case scenario, Chris ends up with a working sensor on his Greytop and I still have a working sensor on my Redtop. The crank angle sensor has been suggested to me before, right after we fixed the cylinder 3 misfire and discovered the bogging. It's one of those things that doesn't seem likely because if the sensor is reading wrong at 3k, why is it working fine at 1k and 7k? Seems weird, but anything manmade is prone to failure and every sensor I haven't checked is still worth checking.

I still suspect fuel pressure. And even more suspect, Brigette's stepdad owns a shop. He was putting new tires on the car a few days ago and found a loose fuel line on the FPR. He tightened it up and with this new discovery, I took the car for a drive, praying he had solved it unintentionally. Unfortunately, he hadn't, but that at least is a start. When I got the BEAMS, I decided to replace the spark plugs. I lost my cheat sheet that had the spark plugs I needed on it, so just to get something in the car and get it going, I grabbed 4 spark plugs that fit my IS. Both are iridium plugs gapped to 0.04". But today I ordered the proper NGK's for the BEAMS. I expect absolutely no change whatsoever, but who knows. Maybe not all NGK iridium plugs are made equally. All I know is I'm pulling $11 plugs out of the car to put $8 plugs in.

The website says this is for the 3S-GE BEAMS, but the chart itself says it's for the ST215 3S-GTE. Either way, it's good information to have.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/33005326/3S-GE-B...VVTI-Codes-List

[BonzaiCelica]

wow man props to all the effort put into your swap. It seems like you've been around cars way longer than I have. here are the plugs I bought for my engine same used on altezza blacktop beams:

NGK Iridium BKR6EIX-11 Spark Plugs

[enderswift]

This must be really frustrating for you. But you're going about this logically and calmly so I'm sure you'll figure it out soon enough. The determined prevail haha.

[richee3]

Thanks, guys. The car is more or less running well most of the time so there's no reason to get upset. Bonzai, those are the plugs I ordered last night. AutoZone couldn't get them at all, and Napa had them listed as lawnmower plugs. But that's the code I keep seeing to use in the BEAMS, and that isn't what I have in it right now. I'll change those out and then get back to chasing sensors.

Luke, I'm doing my best to go through this one step at a time, but I'm not going through this anywhere near as thoroughly as your 3S-GTE. That's why yours wont have a single problem

[stephen_lee]

Although unlikely, the cam/crank position sensors can fail in a way that its only evident at certain rpm/temperatures.

VR sensors work off magnetism and pretty low voltages. magnetism usually gets weaker with increasing temperature. also coils themselves become less efficient with increase in temp.

if there is a weak signal from the VR sensor, but good enough for the ecu to read it.. if it gets ignition(rpm) related interference it could kil the signal to the ecu temporarily.

check the codes and see if it comes up with anything, as some doesnt even cause the CEL to come on.




since this is such a tedious issue we have to get down into the tedious causes lol

[richee3]

I've already checked the codes. Not throwing one. Screwy, right? The CEL just flashes endlessly. Whatever the issue is, it's something REALLY small and stupid. I'm still going to swap the CTS over and probably the crank angle sensor too, after I get some time to research it. I don't know if it needs to be set/adjusted after being replaced. Or even where it is or what it looks like. I only know that it exists.

[Johnnyny]

nice i log in to this awesome great job dude

[stephen_lee]

crank pos sensor should be near the crank pully. will be the only wire going down that area.
cam position sensor will be where the dizzy should be, and if it has a position sensor for the vvt i think its on the front or rear of the head.


but dont take these religiously lol i have never seen a beams...

and no it doesnt need to be set or adjusted. just bolt/plug in

[Stambo]

Thanks, guys. The car is more or less running well most of the time so there's no reason to get upset. Bonzai, those are the plugs I ordered last night. AutoZone couldn't get them at all, and Napa had them listed as lawnmower plugs. But that's the code I keep seeing to use in the BEAMS, and that isn't what I have in it right now. I'll change those out and then get back to chasing sensors.

Luke, I'm doing my best to go through this one step at a time, but I'm not going through this anywhere near as thoroughly as your 3S-GTE. That's why yours wont have a single problem

Whenever i buy my plugs online from napa at work they list them as lawnmower plugs also, lol

[richee3]

I'm starting to get closer.... Replaced the plugs last night. Here's what I found.

Cylinder 1:


Obviously been working, right? Here's the plug from my good friend, cylinder 3:


Still working, though not nearly as much. There's about 2,000 miles on these plugs and cylinder 3 wasn't firing for about 250-300 of those miles. Not enough difference to still be that clean. So either it's not firing at the right time or not firing at all. I had to run my own wire to that coil since the wire was cut. I had to use a bigger wire and ran it through a different route so I'm thinking the issue lies in my own wiring. I'll have the car tomorrow so I will be fixing my wire and pulling the loom apart and examining each wire, then upgrading my grounds. Fingers crossed!

[richee3]

Fixed my wiring today, problem still exists. Replaced the CTS and changed one of the grounds for kicks and giggles. After replacing the CTS, problem was still there. Knowing that the problem is confined to cylinder 3, and below 3,000 RPM, I'm even more stumped. So, that changes things a bit. I now know that the issue is either in the injector, coil, or wiring for that cylinder. Replaced the coil with one from the Greytop, still having issues. I don't have a long enough screwdriver to listen to the injector, but I'll be getting my hands on one as soon as possible. I don't think it can be a ground problem with the coil because the issue would be constant. I've tested the power, ground, and the other signal wire for that coil and they all checked out. So far as I can tell, that one single wire should be the only thing wrong with the cylinder.

A 3S-GTE is starting to look more and more tempting. That way, I get to chase vacuum leaks instead of cylinder misfires.

[ricochet1490]

I'm by no means a plug expert. But it looks like #3 was firing. You have a nice brown tinge on the ground electrode ( the thing you bend to set your gap). My concerns actually stem from #1. I have never, under any circumstances, in my car or a dirtbike, or a lawnmower, or anything, ever seen the plug be brown at the base of the "white stem" . A little brown like #3 yes, never that dark man. That burn may be caused from higher fuel load, subsequently burning rich, which is your exact problem. Maybe plug #3 isn't that bad because it wasn't firing for that period of time, I don't know. But I don't believe that plugs are your problem. I would maintain that, especially after seeing the burning of plug #1, that your problem is fuel. Too much of it. If your fuel pressure ends up being ok, I would take a serious look at the aforementioned temperature sensors etc.
btw, purchase of the motor will happen within the next 6 wks

[richee3]

I thought the same thing too, Trace. But the othe plugs are like that as well. We know this thing is running insanely rich and I have a theory why. Malfunctiong VVT. Let me explain:

When I unplugged my VVT solenoid, I lost power down low instead of up top- just the opposite of what I read should happen. VVT only works after the motor is warmed up, and I only have problems after the motor has warmed up. VVT uses some sort of oil pressure, doesn't it? My oil pressure light never stays on after I start the car. It should stay on for a couple of seconds. I know VVT-i isn't on-off, hence the -i. But it seems to me like my VVT is always "on." Like it's always ready for the high RPM's and therefore, timing isn't right at lower RPM's. After 3,200, I always feel a sort of kick and suddenly everything works fine. Since the valve timing is intelligent and constantly changing based on throttle input and other factors, it works if I keep myfoot out of it at low RPM's but if I go WOT, it adjusts the timing too much and gives me my problems.

It should be said that my oil pressure sensor doesn't seem to have any voltage. The wire is intact but I don't get anything at all with my multimeter. Still no CEL or codes so this is all guesswork and speculation. But if there is enough oil pressure, maybe it's changing valve timing too much, dumping fuel into the cylinders.

Keep me updated on your BEAMS! I'm about to pick up a BEAMS airbox lid and see if I can make an OEM airbox solution for less money.

This post has been edited by richee3: Sep 21, 2011 - 12:56 AM

[ricochet1490]

That all does make sense... I must say. And 3000 - 3200 rpm always being your problem.... also the rpm when vvt kicks in... all too similar. I think you're on the right track. VVt-i does operate off of oil pressure. The problem may in fact be that. If oil pressure isn't sufficient OR always on and engaging VVT-i that would explain your problem readily. I think you've got it whipped. Now to just find time to work on it right?! lol
I'll keep you updated for sure. body work if I can muster it this weekend.

[richee3]

Trace- I think it has too much oil pressure. I'm going to swap the oil pressure sensor over from the Greytop. I don't think the sensor is the problem though. I was going to hook my aftermarket oil pressure gauge up to find out what the pressure was but I couldn't get any signal in the wire at all. Normally when you start a motor, your oil pressure light stays on for a couple of seconds. Mine shuts off immediately, like the sensor thinks it already has full pressure. I'll switch sensors tonight and if that doesn't at least make a change in the light and make it behave a little more normally, I'll start tracing that wire to find out what's going on with it.

I can now confirm that the airbox lid for the BEAMS will work on the USDM airbox. The bottom half of the intake box is 17751-74040, with a different lid. The BEAMS uses 17700-74690 for the lid, which has a longer neck and different diameter pipe than the 5S because of the MAF. Basically, if you have a stock USDM airbox and your BEAMS comes with the rubber hose on the throttle body, all you need is the lid to have a complete OEM BEAMS intake. The OEM intake is arguably the best intake for the BEAMS.

USDM Part Numbers (see Air Inlet)- http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_U_1998_TOYO...LMGKA_1703.html

JDM Part Numbers- http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_1998_TOYO...BLMZF_1703.html

Anybody interested in getting a lid to put on their USDM box to have a factory intake for the BEAMS, feel free to let me know and I can get one for you.

This post has been edited by richee3: Sep 21, 2011 - 12:29 PM

[stephen_lee]

does unplugging the solenoid cause a cel? if it does, the ecu may be compensating and going into a "fail safe" mode