Richee3's Progress thread., Wilwood BBK installed. Options

[richee3]

GAWD....

That pod looks amazing.

It's also yours, if you remember. I say you put it to good use

[bloodMoney]

I'm still planning it all out

[stephen_lee]

your AFRs are confusing.

in general they should be

11.5-13 @ cold startup
<13.5 @ open loop (WOT all RPMs, >3200-3500 & >25%throttle)
14-15.5 closed loop (idle, cruise, mild acceleration)

closed loop WILL bounce around the AFRs alot.





You mentioned the stock O2 is unplugged, it should really be hooked up if at all possible. The ECU is probably in some kinda failsafe mode w/o it. The wideband has a narrowband emulation (blue wire I think, look up the manual to be sure) but my tuner has never had good results with using that..

This post has been edited by stephen_lee: Nov 26, 2011 - 7:10 PM

[richee3]

I don't understand the AFR's at all. Not really too sure what I need to be doing at this point to get them to where they need to be, but at least I know now that you called it, it's going lean and bogging. As for the O2 sensor, it's closed loop. It just gives the ECU a signal but doesn't trim fuel. Turnip has never had his plugged in, and several members of the BEAMS Owners Group have gone without it. It doesn't contribute anything useful to the car's function. Just gives the ECU a pat on the back and tells it that it's doing a good job. There's only one bung in my exhaust, so it's a choice between your wideband or the O2 sensor. Right now, the wideband is more important.

At cold startup, I hardly ever see it at 11.5-13. It usually starts at 14.7 and works its way down.
I do see it <13.5 when you say it should be, apart from WOT below 3,200 RPM. Then it skyrockets and goes above 15, and gets leaner until it starts bogging.
14-15.5, I'm crap out of luck there. That almost never happens.

Quick question, what about the smell I usually smell from this motor? At first I assumed it was due to the motor running so rich. However, doing a little research and using the air/fuel gauge, I know the motor isn't running so rich that I should be smelling it like this. Think I've killed my cat already? I've got about 6,000 miles on the swap so far. I don't know how rich the motor has to run and how quickly the cat would be ruined, but I know I smell the motor quite a bit when I shouldn't.

Stephen, check out Roman's post with the dyno results here. That's what inspired me to make my own piece of crap OEM airbox.

http://www.mr2.com/forums/beams-owners-gro...isfiring-5.html

[stephen_lee]

Bad comparison, but with my 7a I would feel loss of power at 16:1, and lean misfires happening at >18:1.
Anyway, I'd get a stock airbox on. The hot wire MAF is incredibly sensitive to changes in the intake flow.

The smell.. could it be oil?

Does the car start leaning out, then bog, or do they seem to happen at the exact same time?

The wideband will see any misfire as a lean condition since the air/fuel wasnt burned and the engine pumps ALL that cyls O2 into the exhaust

[richee3]

When I floor it below 3k, it leans out and get leaner until it starts bogging. Or if I don't have it at WOT, I can watch the AFR go from like 16 or 17 down to 12 at 3,200 RPM. The smell is definitely like its running rich. This motor doesn't burn a drop of oil. I wouldn't think that an AFR of 12:1 at idle would smell like this. High carbon monoxide levels, maybe? It's possible that I still have a misfire but it seems odd to be fine at idle and redline but misfire at a specific RPM in higher gears only. I'm still thinking VVT-i issue.

[richee3]

I should have the new factory intake in soon. If that makes no change (I'm assuming it won't) then I'm officially shopping for a new motor. I've already been looking around and weighing my options. I like the simplicity to swap, drivability, fuel economy, and the quietness of the stock exhaust that we have right now with the BEAMS. Brigette likes the low-end power delivery and boost of the 3S-GTE. I know next to nothing about the 3rd gen 3S-GTE swap. I know there's something like 7 connections to make but I don't know what or where they are. Either way, I've been chasing problems since June and I'm ready to be done so I'm making d*** sure the next motor works right. The post I linked Stephen to earlier...

So have you tried factory airbox yet?

For my car, this was with Apexi pod filter:


Standard airbox:


Exact same symptoms as you, no low end power, bogging, and turned out to be running massively lean.

All completely fixed by airbox.

Check out the difference in AFRs at low rpm.

Are you running the spacer pipe thing that goes on the MAF with the SARD pipe?

I wouldnt go pulling your entire car to bits, without trying factory airbox first.

That's a glimmer of hope, though I'm not expecting any miracles.

The holidays are coming up... That means new stuff! I'm hoping (though not anticipating) the OEM intake can fix the problems with the BEAMS, which means high funds for other stuffs. Since Brigette doesn't have a garage, we're looking at getting a remote start for her car. She'll have to learn to leave it in neutral, but I don't anticipate any problems. She's pretty responsible with the car and will do whatever it takes to keep it from getting buried under a minivan because it was in gear when she hit the starter. Side note, I won't be installing it. A BEAMS swap doesn't bother me, but wiring in a remote start? Eff that. We're still deciding what other stuff could be coming up. Suspension is likely staying stock. This isn't a track car, just a comfortable, quick-ish daily driver.

Because posts are useless without pictures...



This post has been edited by richee3: Nov 27, 2011 - 12:53 PM

[richee3]

Well, a bit of an update. I finally got around to testing the VVT-i. I know the crank and cam angle sensors are good, so that leaves the ECU, OCV, and VVT controller. I tested both of my OCV's outside the car first, both checked out. With the OCV unplugged, the VVT controller is isolated from the ECU. When I apply 12v to the OCV at idle, it should kill the motor or cause a very rough idle. It didn't make any difference at all. As I told stephen_lee before, this car almost has a cammed muscle car sound to it at times when I'm at low RPM. It sounds very lopey, as if it has a cam ground for high RPM's, which didn't make sense because the VVT-i should ensure that it runs beautifully at both high and low RPM's. based on everything I've seen and learned, I can say with certainty that I have a dead VVT controller.

My options right now are limited. Finding a VVT controller for a BEAMS in the United States will be very expensive and very cheap... Unless you happen to have a spare Greytop in your garage. The issue with that is I would buy a new timing belt, water pump, oil pump, and try to find a mechanic willing to do the work for me. That would be a pretty steep bill on the hope that the VVT controller from my Greytop works. If it doesn't, that's money wasted. My other option is buy a new BEAMS. There's one on Ebay that I've got my eye on right now. Comes with the factory intake, MAF, SS-III subframe, steering rack, axles, and best of all, Superstrut suspension and SS-III brakes. The price is pretty steep, but only a couple hundred more than the other swaps. If I'm going to buy another BEAMS, that's the one. Or I might go 3S-GTE. WE'll see. But for now, I'm done working on this motor and spending money until we come to a decision.

[enderswift]

your patience astounds me.

[ricochet1490]

x2

[njccmd2002]

i still think its the wiring, or something simple.

[richee3]

Patience is mandatory with problems like this. It's fun to overcome problems... I just haven't made any progress at all late. That takes all the fun out of it.

Noberto, I wish I still thought that. However, with the OCV unplugged and adding my own 12v power to it, that rules out any problems in my wiring. With the OCV back in the motor, I could hear it clicking but the idle never changed as it should have when I advanced or retarded the timing. My VVT controller is definitely locked up.

[kurt95gt]

is there no way to test the vet controller from the graytop?
sorry if that's a stupid question
just seems like if the graytops works ok it would be easier(an cheaper) than getting a whole new swap

[SupraKid]

This thread needs moar JDMs.

[richee3]

Kurt- there kind of is. When the motor is off, a lock pin is supposed to engage. I can put 20 psi to the controller to disengage the pin, then twist the controller with a pair of needle nose pliers. I can do all that, but then all I know is that I have a VVT controller that can turn. The controller can't be serviced or fixed either. I could risk my Greytop controller working, but if it doesn't, I get to buy a new motor anyway. At this point, I'm even tired of the way this BEAMS looks. The exhaust heat shield had some rust when I got it, so I powdercoated that and dislike the results. The valve cover is a little faded and the intake manifold is scratched. Those aren't real issues, but I like to whine. Plus a 5 speed BEAMS swap has LSD. Win.

Andrew- it will have moar JDM very soon.

[kurt95gt]

If you do another swap what the plans from there with the current beams? sell it or another parts motor or
swap into another celica

[richee3]

Probably sell certain parts, keep the rest for parts for the next BEAMS if we get another BEAMS. Otherwise, I'll just sell it all if we go 3S-GTE.

[Bigblock]

I searched VVT & VVTi. So call me clueless!!
Not understanding it hardly at all!!

Your patience & perseverance is in the Sainthood area!!!
Wish I could be so knowledgeable!!

[stephen_lee]

the VVT controller operates off oil pressure.. its still entirely possible that filter is plugged not allowing the controller to change cam timing

[richee3]

I considered that but there's always a good amount of oil on the OCV. That, and insufficient oil pressure would leave the lock pin engaged, neither advancing nor retarding timing. My timing is definitely not standard.

Rob- Three months ago, I didn't understand VVT either. I learned a little bit each day and now that I understand it, it's actually a rather simple system. It's mostly mechanical, even. I couldn't explain it over the Internet very well but if I had the BEAMS in front of both of us, I could show you exactly how it works in 2 minutes or less.