about to swap a 4th gen in? lookie here, here's some useful info Options

[easternpiro1]

recently ive been looking into buying parts for my 4th gen before i put it back in my coupe and i got the wondering to what are the most important things most people replace before you put in a motor.

With the help of lagos and pitcelica, i was given some useful info and advice that would help us all should you go down the road of a swap.

The following are things reccomended you replace before putting motor in, and in a 4th gen owners case, a means to get your hands on the parts!

Stuff that was suggested:

-rear main seal : even if the part numbers are a little different than gen2 or gen3 3SGTE, I'm 99% sure that they are all the same seal because the crankshaft is the same on all gens.
-front main seal : gen2, gen3 and gen 4 have all the same part number.
-cam seals : gen2, gen3 and gen4 all use the same exhaust camshaft and both cam seals (intake and exhaust) have the same part number, so, by analogy, any 3SGTE cam seals will do the job.
-thermostat : a gen3 thermostat will work
-waterpump : a gen3 waterpump will work

belts are the same across generations so u can go to napa or something to grab one (I would personally reccomend you get an OEM toyota timing belt, and any other part you can b/c of better quality lagos can hook all 6gc members up thru toyota )

I would add timing belt, timing belt tensioner + idler pulley and all brand new v-belts. Verify if the coolant hoses near the oil cooler are in good shape. Do not change them if they aren't worn.

I used toyodiy for comparing the part numbers :

'01 Caldina : http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/g_J_2001_TOYO...215W-DWMZZ.html
'95 ST205 : http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/g_J_1995_TOYO...T205-BLMVZ.html
'94 MR2 : http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/g_U_1994_TOYO...L-AJMZZA_1.html

Good luck!

and for good measure, i found this old list from somewhere on this site that was listed about interchangeable parts throughout the gens of 3sgte:

So, as I can seen, a lot of people want to know what are the aftermarket parts are available for the ST215 3SGTE engine. Here's are some parts that are bolt on :

-Adjustable cam gear (AEM, Fidanza, HKS, OBX, ATS). Any cam gear kit for 3SGTE will fit.

-XS Power SSAC ST205 manifold/downpipe used with a ST205 turbo will convert the one-piece ST215 manifold/turbo to a nicely upgradeable ST205 Ct20b turbo kit. You can add to this a t3/t4 adaptor and you will be able to use a t3/t4 turbo (like I did on my ST215 swap)

-Pistons, rods, crankshaft are all the same for ST205 and ST215

-The injectors are the same as the ST205 one, so, if there is a 3rd gen fuel system available, it will fit the ST215 too.

-The exhaust camshaft is the same as the ST205 one. So an HKS 264/272 exhaust camshaft will bolt on. For the intake, I don't know if the HKS one would fit. Next year, when money will allow it, I'll buy a HKS264/264 camshaft kit and I'll know if the intake camshaft fit or not.

-You can remove the top ATA intercooler and add a FMIC as easy as any other 3SGTE.

The things that need heavy custom work is the ECU/wiring harness, ignition component (because of coil-on-plug). In my case, I used a Megasquirt II ECU with Ford EDIS wastespark ignition system and everything works nicely.

The other aftermarket parts like BOV, wastegate, air intake, boost controller etc, can be fitted easily like on any other 3SGTE engine.

The alternator can be replaced with one from any 5SFE or 3SGTE, along with the a/c compressor and the p/s pump (though the 4th gen p/s pump uses an electronic sending unit for the idle-up).

Bear in mind that the 4th gen injectors are also high-impedance, and no resistor pack is used.
-pistons
-connecting rods
-crankshaft
-exhaust camshaft
-cam gears
-timing belt
-water pump
-Intake manifold (bolt pattern are the same)
-fuel rail and injectors from ST215 are 540cc and top feed, so they have the same output rating as gen3, but they are top feed instead of side-feed(gen3)
-exhaust manifold (same bolt pattern)(but the 4th gen exhaust manifold is casted with the turbine housing)
-MAT sensor (manifold air temp)
-MAP sensor
-crank pulley
-oil pans
-oil pickup system
-knock sensor
-ac compressor
-alternator (5sfe as well)


EDIT: i recently found out that the timing belt you would get from a toyota dealership would be different this means that the gen 2 3s (usdm) timing belt would be off by one tooth. if thats no big deal to you go for it!

This post has been edited by easternpiro1: Feb 24, 2011 - 5:03 PM

[SoDo]

Nice! I found a 4th gen 3sgte today up here in the city. The distributor wants 1300 for the engine with no ecu and timing belt cover is broken. Good condition and a reputable jdm importer. Since I threw a rod in my 5sfe, I might buy the 4th gen. I would like to get a 3rd gen, but since I found a 4th gen close to the shop I may pick it up. Need to do a little more research before I make the decision though.

[easternpiro1]

i have an extra ecu blew my 1st 4th gen, on my 2nd one now, will have an extra ecu laying around. will put it in FS sale thread once i get the other 4th gen in.

[jcbass7]

looking for a ballpark figure on how much more it costs to:
A. buy a ST215 with everything
B. complete the swap

I'm on the fence between a 3rd or 4th gen

[pitcelica]

For SoDo :

I have a 4th gen timing belt cover (lower and upper) for sale if you ever buy that engine.

For easternpiro :

I'll get back to you with the NAPA (Gates) part numbers for the v-belts.

Sam

[easternpiro1]

For SoDo :

I have a 4th gen timing belt cover (lower and upper) for sale if you ever buy that engine.

For easternpiro :

I'll get back to you with the NAPA (Gates) part numbers for the v-belts.

Sam

thanks man!

[chacha]

sorry to steal thread....but i thought i contribute this to the CADALINA...hyper REV pdf



Hyper Rev Cadalina

This post has been edited by chacha: Sep 18, 2010 - 4:22 AM

[easternpiro1]

looking for a ballpark figure on how much more it costs to:
A. buy a ST215 with everything
B. complete the swap

I'm on the fence between a 3rd or 4th gen

man i overlooked your question! sorry man. JDM engine depot is sellin 4th gens FOR CHEAP. i got mine for $999 it cost 150 to ship from their location (kearny NJ) to charlotte nc and i got it QUICK.

finding a tranny (s54) should be no problem jus tmake sure its in good shape.

all in all with EVERYTHING (including replacing parts like water pump etc) i would say save up like 2500-3500 to be safe. labor will be more of course.

[easternpiro1]

oh btw... thought i would add...

as far as the thermostat goes for us 4th gen guys, when u get it from lagos at toyota, the housing will be different. DONT FREAK OUT. it's ok. just take the housing off or get the pump without the housing. the pumps look identical.

look here for water pump diff: http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...20&start=20

also pitcelica told me that the oil pump is he same as he one from the 5sfe. the part numbers are different from the other gen 3sgte's iirc, but changing out the gaskets etc is somethin you would want to do.

[easternpiro1]

thought i'd also add that contrary to my previous belief, a usdm 3s thermostat is too small. though i could have SWORN i used one from an mr2 when it went bad a few years ago....

use the thermostat from the 4runner.

[njccmd2002]

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=75910

[Johnnyny]

4runner wasnt it a land cruiser or do they use the same

[easternpiro1]

tweak had said 4runner... i was kinda surprised, i know for a fact i used either a gen2 3s or 5s in there

This post has been edited by easternpiro1: Nov 25, 2010 - 9:42 AM

[99GT]

Post about the axle problem or does the 4th gen not need a special axle set up?

[easternpiro1]

Post about the axle problem or does the 4th gen not need a special axle set up?

axle problem? nah, not with a fourth gen, the only time axles become a problem is when youre using the e153 transmission, then you have to use mr2 inners and gt outers iirc. but the axles on a 4th gen setup will go in pretty much the same as any other gen

[3WayStunna]

Thats alot of good info yo! Will definatly make things easier for those wanting to do the swap...Btw, can someone offer me some veiwpoints on why they would consider the 4th gen swap over a 3rd gen. Im well aware of both engines capabilites in stock form, so im kinda gearing this question to those who want long term usage out of a fourth gen...to me if the 4th gen offered a "stronger" block or at least one not so prone to cracking...that would be something "long term" ...anybody get what i mean?

[easternpiro1]

Thats alot of good info yo! Will definatly make things easier for those wanting to do the swap...Btw, can someone offer me some veiwpoints on why they would consider the 4th gen swap over a 3rd gen. Im well aware of both engines capabilites in stock form, so im kinda gearing this question to those who want long term usage out of a fourth gen...to me if the 4th gen offered a "stronger" block or at least one not so prone to cracking...that would be something "long term" ...anybody get what i mean?

i feel a pissing contest coming but me personally, i got a 4th gen because its a newer motor (1998-2004) has coil on plug, makes A SLIGHTLY larger amount of horsepower, and because i like to be different

As far long term useage it would be the same as any 3sgte or any engine for that matter, proper maintenance and not constantly beating on it=longer life. If youre worried about finding parts, (which you shouldnt be, since you see caldinas regularly where youre at u lucky bastard )
alot of the parts are interchangeable among the gens, and even a 5s in a couple of cases (alternator,oil pump iirc,starter)

As far as the block is concerned, the Gen3 and Gen4 basically have the same block if not identical from what i been told. reason why i say that is because most of he accessories bolt on in the same place with some minor variation (ex water pump and coolant lines on front of block are different)

anywho, i dont think there is much difference in the actual strength of the blocks iirc. both are cast iron, and pretty damn strong. It all goes back to proper maintenance and caring for your motor. hope i answered this right, im sure lagos or presure can articulate it a bit better

[3WayStunna]

Well no worries hopefully i wont be starting any kind of pissing contest. All in all, like you said both are great engines from the get go, and considering what must USDM celica's start with, they are well worth the money for those wanting a "bolt on" turbo swap.

But in terms of holding up 500-600 horsepower i was wondering which is the most capable. Im talking in regards to the somewhat known failure in the block, where it develops stress cracking along the number 2/3 cylinders i believe. They say it has something to do with cooling within the water jacket and such, and how poor it is in that one area. I have also heard that this only applies to the blocks made within certain years (94-late 95) but it continues to it happen with blocks beyond those years. Was wondering if the caldina blocks, most of which are made after 2000 have that problem as well.

So after all just wrote about the 3rd gens is it more myth and rumor than truth...and if true, is is it true about the 4th gen blocks as well....Guess ill be waiting for some input by the 3sgte guru's lol...

Btw, i wish i could provide some sources for my info, but it seems to be everywhere on the net...so....

[lagos]

Well no worries hopefully i wont be starting any kind of pissing contest. All in all, like you said both are great engines from the get go, and considering what must USDM celica's start with, they are well worth the money for those wanting a "bolt on" turbo swap.

But in terms of holding up 500-600 horsepower i was wondering which is the most capable. Im talking in regards to the somewhat known failure in the block, where it develops stress cracking along the number 2/3 cylinders i believe. They say it has something to do with cooling within the water jacket and such, and how poor it is in that one area. I have also heard that this only applies to the blocks made within certain years (94-late 95) but it continues to it happen with blocks beyond those years. Was wondering if the caldina blocks, most of which are made after 2000 have that problem as well.

So after all just wrote about the 3rd gens is it more myth and rumor than truth...and if true, is is it true about the 4th gen blocks as well....Guess ill be waiting for some input by the 3sgte guru's lol...

Btw, i wish i could provide some sources for my info, but it seems to be everywhere on the net...so....

Like you said, its all mostly a myth. You can blow a headgasket, or a rod long before you can crack a block. In fact that that type of horse power, anything is possible.

But to answer your question, its hard to say what block is better or worse, but I can tell you that the guys that are serious about that kind of power normally build their engine with a 98+ 5sfe block as those have been proven to be pretty strong.

[pitcelica]

Keep in mind that the 4th gen 3SGTE connecting rods are a little smaller than the other generations. In fact, they are the same rods as the BEAMS 3SGE. So, if I were building a high HP engine, I would use some aftermarket rods and pistons anyway.

As Lagos said, a lot of high HP guys build their engine around a 98+ 5SFE block which are known to be stronger.

For my opinion, if your HP goal is under 350-400 WHP, keep the bottom end stock and use only bolt-ons and a nice EMS tune, regardless about the engine generation. More power than that, build it right using a 98+ 5SFE block and a whole lot of nice aftermarket forged bits for the bottom end.

Sam