ST-185 Alternator Scoop, WTF is this thing for [besides the obvious] Options

[DEATH]

First off - if the mods think this belongs in chassis electrical, please feel free to move it. I figured I'd put it here because it really only pertains to those of us running the forced inducted ST-185 engine.

Anyway, the Alternator scoop shown above - I'd like to have a real discussion about it, it's usefulness, whether or not it's really a requirement for those of us running the ST-205 hood with the big upper vents and any and all development info anyone has ever read or heard about it.
I'll start by saying I've been through an inordinate amount of alternators and I've had fires and melting of the alternator wiring on a few occasions and I'd like this BS to stop before I burn my car down eventually. Stephen_lee and I have been all over this area. Re-wiring the area a few times and still I have problems as recently as a week ago.
SupraKid was awesome enough to go waaaay out of his way to locate, purchase and ship me a replacement alternator [the one you see above] in record time and I want to do this correctly so that I don't burn this one up. Thanks again Andrew

All that being said - do you guys think I should install the scoop? I've never had it installed before but I have collected all the peices and tubes that are included in the system so I could def hook it up if I wanted to.
What are the pro/cons here?

This post has been edited by DEATH: Sep 30, 2010 - 9:07 AM

[Culpable04]

if you have an aftermarket downpipe, the tube that goes on the alternator won't fit, and no is not nessesary, your issues lay elsewhere, I have yet to see someone with a 3s swap running that tube, it's just extra weight for us, I'm sure that while rallying throught the desert of Africa it was benefitial and helped keep the alternator working at its best and not overheating, thus why toyota installed it on the Celica GT4, but for our cars and street beated it machines is not needed.

[DEATH]

Remember that I live in Houston, Texas where it regularly gets 100*F+ for months at a time - it does seem to catch fire or fail only in the summer months [like last month].
hmmmm

I just went to Columbia which is located ON the equator and I can tell that it was much cooler there - and I basically did 2 days each in every part of the country.

I do have a very nice aftermarket DP but I have test fit the system before and it does fit [must just be the particular DP I have]

This post has been edited by DEATH: Sep 30, 2010 - 9:21 AM

[Defgeph]

I agree with culp, the alt cooler is very useless for us swappers. You might have some electrical gremlins causing the wire melt issue. Sounds like the wire can't handle the amount of power you are trying to pull through it.

Do you have a lot of electronics running in the car? Amps, hids, extra lighting? You shouldn't be melting anything, might want to try insulating the wiring even more.

[DEATH]

Jeff!!! How's tricks, bish?

Yeah I've got the full gambit of electronics and remember I'm running Qatar11's original set of swap wires from waaaaay back in the day. But see we've gone and replaced the majority of the wiring with high quality wiring and insulated the piss out of it. and it's still melting. If you take a look in my profile you'll see my DP is a very nice gentle curve [as compared to say a Berk or stock DP] so it's nicely placed to cook the wiring for the alt.
That's why I thought the insulated cover with air scoop might just be the trick.
I don't necessarily have to take it down to the bottom of the engine bay like the ST-185 does - remember I have a full CNC/Robotic welding shop at my disposal with a fully stocked raw materials department so I can make a new tube to redirect it to a cooler spot.

But this is the stuff I wanted - I wanted to see what the rest of you swappers thought about this. Let's keep the dialogue going.
Does anyone have any published info to read on this item? Pics? Diagrams? What were Toyota's initial reasons for installing this? Was it a WRC Homologation thing?

This post has been edited by DEATH: Sep 30, 2010 - 10:44 AM

[Defgeph]

When that harness was converted, very limited information was available about the wiring. I'm willing to bet that ur problems are in the harness conversion. I think you need to trace out the converted wires and see if they are in the correct locations.

Test the output of the alt too. See if its high
If you break the same part more than once, its very likely the problem is something else.

[DEATH]

It was pushing like 14.5-15v right before this happened. I kept turning all the A/C, HIDs, both amplifiers, all three screens etc on to get the power level down.
I think Stephen and I just need to completely rewire that whole circuit. I think Mike [Qatar11] himself had the same problem leading to his car burning up - I'm not having the same thing happen to my baby.

[stephen_lee]

there are a few reasons Toyota could have added this duct

1. Alt efficiency (amps out) relies heavily on temperature.
2. The voltage regulator has 6 diodes that convert the ac output to DC, these tend to get HOT, and hot diodes = less power transfer and less life
3. To help keep the turbo heat away from the alt.
4. Cooler windings transfer current better.
5. Magnetism works better with lower temperatures.

basically a hot alt is less efficient. a cooler alt will ALWAYS output more amps, last longer, and be generally 'happier' than a hotter one.


DEATHs burn ups were on the signal wires this time, which could either have been exhaust heat melting them directly, OR the heat made the wiring brittle, which then cracked it and shorted the wires.

[DEATH]

the heat made the wiring brittle, which then cracked it and shorted the wires

From what I could see this is exactly what it looked like.
I stripped the wire all the way back to main harness and replaced it all with that high temp [600*] high voltage [3000v] wire I keep in stock and am so fond of. Then I insulated the new main power wire by running it through an uncut peice of extra thick heater hose. Hopefully this will keep the heat off the wires themselves and with the new alternator maybe it'll be trouble free for a while

[richee3]

Can't hurt to try running it with the alternator scoop, right?

[stephen_lee]

nah, just maybe an extra pound or so.

DEATH, that was exactly what i was thinking of trying.. getting it a good 6-8 inches in the harness

[presure2]

you need to totally rewire that alternator section, D.
the duct helps cool the alt, which cant be a bad thing, but having the duct installed isnt going to solve the problem, i can almost guarantee it.
as far as weight, i have the rubber section from my swap in the garage, it maybe weighs 2 lbs, tops.

[DEATH]

Thanks guys - this helps me put it into perspective.
Stephen is coming down this weekend, and as we all know, he IS 6GC's Texas wiring guru so we're gonna take that thing all the way back hopefully and just completely elliminate this issue forever when we install the new Alternator I got from SupraKid's hookup in Cali with new belts and super freaking insulate the thing. And as said before, it can't hurt to install the cooling duct and I do have the parts so why not?
Then after that we'll finally wire in my power folding mirrors and the second optima redtop battery in the trunk. When that's all done I think Stephen and I will have literally rewired the ENTIRE vehicle so hopefully it'll be smooth sailing from here on out

This post has been edited by DEATH: Oct 1, 2010 - 11:00 AM

[SwissFerdi]

Good luck mang.

[Defgeph]

I think you'll be all set with a proper wiring job, the car will most likely run better as well. Can't wait to hear the results.
I'm considering doing exactly the same with my car. My harness could use a clean up and re-loom job.

Put an extra horn in there for me will ya!

[stephen_lee]

i got a set of lexus horns, plus stock ones on my car.. sounds manly haha. DEATH has one lexus horn and 3 stock ones i think... we gotta get him going. i have his wiring setup to handle 15 horns haha but i doubt we can fit that many