Turbocharging project from scrap Finished, Finish topic: TurboCharger project from Options

[west_minist]

The main post begins here, buy the full howto is a couple pages over.

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?act=ST...&f=4&t=662&st=0


This howto is for any cylinder engine.

It have been tried on the 3SGE, 4AFE, 4AGE, 4AGE 20v Silver top, 4AGE 20v Black Top, Mazda 323's and a few other vehicles.

I still need to tweak it.

I need your input to further enhance this how-to

Copy of post below.

Again, all references should be made to the main post at http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?act=ST...&f=4&t=662&st=0.

I created this second post to get some 'light" from you.

Thanx

This post has been edited by west_minist: Feb 1, 2003 - 10:33 PM

[west_minist]

I will try to keep it cheap as possible. But please remember that in the long run, cheapnest makes you spend money. We all like the rising HP, but hates replacing.

I will also keep the job as simple as possible.

I have never turbocharge a celica, but have over-veiw such projects on the 4AFE, 4AGE, 4AGE 20v silver top.

I have a few friends here with 6gen celica and I almost purchase one myself, but decided to wait until the end of this year to import one from Japan.

I have view the engine bay of both AS/NA models, which shows more space for turbocharging than the other toyota models we have work with using the 4A engines.

To some point, turbocharging is turbocharging. Some projects are unique but once you have the will, there is a way.

Charlie97L will be doing a similar how-to for the main 6gc.net which will finish over time. He have posted a couple queries to me which I have reply and accepted. I therefore will add (including other) any content that will help him in his project.

Either way, that will take some time and here is my write up.

All products comes with detail manuals on how to set them up. E.g, Apex'i.

I see no need to rewrite what are in those documents.

Almost all manufactures have their documentation online.

My main right up will be installing the turbo and tuning after installing.

Please remember that almost all of the manufacture listed in this post have their documentation on line. Please make reference to them.

The final how to on this document will appear as a colaborate effort on everyone part, including Charlie97L who will be the main contributor, currently turbocharging his 7AFE.

Please check my first post for parts need.

I will also be assuming that your car is very standard at this point. I.e, just purchase from the car lot.

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1) We will lower the car by 1" to 2". We can either use Eibach ProKit or SportLine spring or some coilover like GroundControl with some adjustable Koni or KYB shock.

I mention adjustable here to set a ride comfort level. Also, remember to check your camber.

Also, if you want to, upgrade you brake rotors since there will not be able to hard the excessive braking that might be require after turbocharging. This is a warning!

2) We will apply some bracing to the structure to prevent twisting and flexing in the car body, thereby allowing better control in braking, cornering and sudden torque stresses from launching.

Such bracing includes Strut Tower brace, Rear stabilizing brace, Anti-Roll Bars, Lower Frame Brace.

3) If you stick with your standard rims, still purchase good rubber for your rim. Check out http://www.tirerack.com for the best Ultra or MAX Performance tire for your ride. Not listed there is the Toyo Proxes T1-S.

Tire Survey
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/index.jsp

Ultra High Performance Tires
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/uhp.jsp

Max Performance Tires
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/max.jsp

4) Gauge setup. You can get a number of gauges from Autometer or from some other manufacture.

You will need an Air/Fuel ratio, boost, temperature and pressure gauge. There are all important; making sure that you do not destroy your engine.

Refer to manufacture for setting up of there gauges


5) What we do from here now is to tune the car. This will show you how lame stock can be.

6) In this tuning, we will select a nice turbo exhaust using a custom 2.5” – 3.0” piping. Also get a good air filter from companies like K&N, Ractive and so on.

7) Install a good Adjustable fuel pressure regulator w/ a gauge (optional but need to see what your fuel pressure is set at and to see if you fuel system can handle the high fuel flow need after turbocharging.)

You will be using the A-FPR to supply more fuel to the injectors, thereby reducing the duty cycle on the injector when you need more fuel to make more power and have a proper fuel-air mixture after turbocharging.

8) Install some nice Platinum, Iridium or any racing plugs from manufacture like NGK, Nippon, etc.


9) Start the car and check you A/F gauge. Increase the fuel pressure using the FPR. Make a note on the reading display by the fuel gauge meter. Listen to how the car is idling. We do not want the car to sound lumpy, as this is wasting fuel and causing pollution. Check the Autometer or the A/F meter for how rich or lean the car is.

Test drive the car and the your keep eye on the A/F meter. Keep from using full throttle opening since the meter will not read properly. We want the reading to be in the range stoichiometric range (yellow lights into green) or just a little rich (into few green lights).

Must read http://www.autometer.com/hp/index.html

Check for the best time it take to reach 100km/h or some measurement to see what your best A/F would be for your driving style.

10) After running the previous test, let us now advance the timing. You will need a timing light. Read through your Celica Repair or Workshop manual (by this time you should have one. You will need it later) on how to do this. (You will have the turn the distributor clockwise/anticlockwise [on some models beside toyota] after slacking it off)

Adjust you timing by every 2 degree. Listen for pinging (sound like little hammers hitting on a piece of block metal)

Tests drive the car again and listen for the pinging sound under normal and hard acceleration. When successful, push the timing up again (by 2 degree). Run the same test again. If you start to here the pinging sound (for Air Flow meter people) adjust your AFM a/f screw. Otherwise, increase you fuel press until you get rid of the sound.

Please remember that you must meet a balance between A/F and timing.

Test drive one last time to make sure everything is good.

Your car should now feel very fast and capable.

You can also use the Btilz Power Meter i-D http://www.blitz-na.com/PM_ID.htm OR the G-TECH/Pro Competition http://www.gtechpro.com Monitoring tool.

Apex Speed/Rev Meter can also do this job

Please note that this highly advance timing will be reduce when you go turbocharged [/color][/b]

(Optional) This maybe a good time to invest in a Cranecams or MSD ignition controller with a timing control. Once attained, you can reset you timing to 0 and use the ignition controller timing module to control your timing from the cockpit.

11) Next:- turbocharge the engine now.



Turbocharging

1) Since we are dealing with 1800cc + engines, try to stay away from 1600cc turbos.

You can either go with a Toyota CT20B Turbo, but it would be better to use the CT26 turbo. If not pickup a Garret or a HKS
GT-SS or the GT2510 or GT2530 or some other OEM turbo from out of some vehicle doing 200+ HP and less than 280HP(your choice) for a car over 1800cc. All of then should have an internal wastegate. The aim here is to run low boost by default, without using a boost controller

The GT-SS & the GT2530 is the same turbo except the 2530 have a bigger
Compressor wheel.
http://www.hksusa.com/categories/more.asp?id=1092
http://www.hksusa.com/products/?id=703

You can also safely go up to GT-RS if you want to. This depends on your aim and future HP.

2) I recommend we run a low boost level. Let say anyway between 3-8psi since we are below 11:1 compression on the engine and also playing it safe. If above 11:1, 6psi will be good.

3) The gauges mentioned before really comes into play here.

We will need to keep our eye on the oil pressure and temperature, engine temperature, boost, Air Fuel ratio and others.

Turbocharged engines are highly stress engines.

Make sure your oil and water pumps are good.

High oil temperatures are not good. Once pass the manufacture recommendations, the oil loses its ability to lubricate. You know what happens next??? The engine will KNOCK; cease up or whatever you want to call it.

So take these warnings VERY serious. Ok?


4) Depending on your turbo exhaust housing inlet, you maybe able to buy a turbo manifold or build one. Position your turbo to see the best location to place it.

Remember the exhaust housing will get very hot, so give it enough room from the engine and radiator or whatever else. Also try to keep it away from the oil filter.

If possible, you should try to possible the turbo as close as possible to the header outlet form the engine. Also from to added bends going the same direction as all the others. This will alleviate stress on custom manifold itself.

Give http://www.burnsstainless.com a call if you want a customer manifold build by experts.

5) You will have to get a shop or a friend to weld up a manifold for you from pipes of angular cast iron/stainless steel pipes. Allow these pipes to converge into collector since the HKS GT-SS & GT2510 have one entry.

Try to keep each pipe equal lengths or multiple path lengths coming from the engine exhaust outlets. E.g. 1-4 2-3

6) Put back a new manifold gasket if your old one is going. If you like, you might need to use 2 gaskets depending on how flat your customized header backplane is.

You will also need some turbo gasket accessories from any aftermarket store which sells turbos or different types of high temperature gaskets used on engine etc.

Main: http://www.hksusa.com/categories/?id=1088

http://www.hksusa.com/products/?id=833
http://www.hksusa.com/products/?id=836


7) Attach the turbo manifold (header) to the engine and then to the turbo. If the turbo comes with a proper manual, check the torque setting for bolting up.

8) The next step involves attaching the oil line to and from the turbo.

9) Look for the oil pressure gauge sensor. Check your Car Repair Manual for this.

Use a T connection to supply the oil to the turbo and also to the pressure gauge sensor. To the turbo, use a steel braided line.

The out line or the (return line) coming from the turbo would flow through a braided steel line to the sump. You will have to drill a hole in the sump and use a connection so that it will connect to the braided line. The sump connection has to be braced.

10) Once finish, the next step is to connect the turbo exhaust outlet to the exhaust.

The pipe coming from the turbo exhaust outlet will most probably not line up with the original exhaust piping. To connect both exhaust a nice curve pipe through an exhaust flex housing to the pipe carrying your exhaust.

11) Next step involves running the pressurize air carrying pipes from the turbo to the intake manifold on the engine.

You will need a flex pipe to measure angles and lengths to custom cut your pipes.

If you have an eye for angles and lengths, you will need some angular pipes and a hand for welding.

Attach the piping to the turbo, intercooler (installed in the bumper) and intake manifold using silicon sleeves. Where the silicon sleeves goes over the pipe, should be mark for abrasion. This will stop the sleeves from sliding of.

12) Pick a nice location for your BOV and install it there. Again, it will have to be braced.

13) From off that same tubular pipe, you also need an outlet to take your boost reading off. This is where you attach you Boost gauge sensor.

This can be near where you install the BOV.

14) On the compressor side of the turbo, you will see a very small outlet. Also, on the wastegate controller (a big bulb carrying a lever), you will see a similar configuration. Attached a piece of pressure hose joining both the outlet and the inlet.


Check over

Check to make sure that your fluids are up. E.g., oil, brake, coolant

Check and make sure that the oil lines run to and from the turbo have good connection and torque properly.

Make sure the oil return line to the sump is connected properly and brace in to the sump.

Make sure that the oil line coming from the Oil pressure sensor is fitted and connected well.

Make sure that the turbo manifold is bolted and mate properly to the engine and turbo.

Also check the hose running from the compressor housing to the wastegate controller.

Make sure that the BOV is installed correctly and the boost gauge sensor hose is connected.



Time to start

In this section, we are only going to start the car to test the installation. So no revving or moving the vehicle

1. Reset your timing back to 0 degrees.

2. If you like, remove the intake pipe to the intake manifold.

3. Start the car. Listens to how it idles. It should idle normal.

4. Check for oil leaks around the t connection where the oil pressure sensor is, around the turbo and also the sump.

5. Rev the engine over 1K rpm but less than 4K rpm.

Check for any oil leaks

6. Allow the engine to idle and run periodically. Keep on checking oil leak and exhaust leaks. You should not have any black marks around the turbo manifold and exhaust housing.

7. If you feel very confident that everything is good, it is time to more on to the testing the turbo charger. Turn the car OFF

In you first tuning, you should have a good idea on how your engine performs when rev. You will be looking to see how fast it revs and lean and rich spots in the the rpm range.

8. Connect the turbo intake pipe back on to the intake manifold.

9. Start the car with your eye on the boost controller. It should read just above 0psi or 1. It is fairly had to say what it will read due to the side of your turbo and engine configurations. Eg, 7AFE, 5SFE, 3SGE

10. Check for any leakage in the intake pipe of the pipes running from the turbo compressor outlet to the intake manifold.

11. Listen to the car. It should sound slightly different. It should sound a little heavier and the exhaust should sound like it is blowing more air.

12. Good. Rev the car slowly to 2K rpm and check your gauges, especially the boost.

As mention above, you do not want the boost to go over 8psi or have big low spikes over 8psi

13. Check again for any oil leakage

14. Rev the car to 3500 rpm slowly. You should be near or getting very close to the point where the turbo is now starting to spool up efficiently.

15. Check you boost gauge, oil connections and turbo pressurize piping from the turbo to the intake manifold.

16. Also, keep your eye on the A/F meter. For safety, the meter should be in the rich range.

17. Rev the car from idle to 4000rpm and back of. Note the gauges. If would be nice here to have some replay gauges like from Greddy HKS or Blitz.

18. Rev a couple of times repeatedly to see how the A/F and Boost are behaving. Remember, you want less than 8psi.

19. Here is what you were waiting on. Be careful at this point. I would advice here, if I have started it before, new engine oil and oil level reading at high.

20. Rev the engine slowly to the ¼ of the redline.

21. Note A/f & boost gauge. Adjust the BOV to relieve the pressure building up in the intake pipes. You do not want to relieve all of the pressure.

22. From idle again, rev to ½ of the redline. Repeat list 21.

23. Rev to ¾ of the redline. Repeat list 21.

24. Rev to full rpm limit. Repeat list 21.

25. Check for oil leakage and intake air leakage.

26. Check engine temperatures or all temperatures.

27. If you are running a little lean, adjust you fuel pressure regulator. To have the car running slightly rich at high rpm, since this maybe where you would be from now.

28. If you find that the boost is too high or to low, you will have to buy a manual boost controller. Greddy, APEXI are a few examples.

29. Test drive the car. Try not to abuse the engine and turbo. Take your time.

30. After a couple of hours of testing, you can advance the timing by 2 degree. Check for pinging. In you checks, you will be driving the car.

31. If emissions are a problem balance the timing and the fuel to the engine.

32. Increase the timing by 2 degrees each time after verifying no pining under hard acceleration in all gears.

33. If pining does occur, try the increasing the Fuel pressure using the adjustable fuel regulator.


34. Continue to monitor your gauges and oil level frequently.

Best of luck to everyone.



This post has been edited by west_minist: Feb 1, 2003 - 10:44 PM

[Guest_Matthew_*]

good job man. one thing though. My eyes hurt from so much reading

[west_minist]

Well, that is life.

Have you ever jump up from sleeping, wondering how to make your car faster?

[boosted_K2]

dont have time/want to read it all right now but at a glance it looks like very good info and it will help me out alot with tuning my turbo on the 3s when i swap! need to put this as a FAQ or something where people can reference it when this question gets asked weekly

[west_minist]

That sounds very good. But it will be up to coomer.

[west_minist]

Any one thing of turbocharging in on this forum? beside those that have mentioned it?

[edo17982]

I'm going to to it....I just need some time to have all components....
I just got: 3SGE injectors, 6gc GT4 fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, a/f ratio and boost gauge.
I think to take exhaust manifold and T£ from Jgs...

[west_minist]

What are you turbocharging?

This post has been edited by west_minist: Feb 6, 2003 - 8:36 AM

[edo17982]

7AFE

[Guest_Jason_*]

I'm thinking about changing my 4AGZE to a 4AGTE possibly.

[west_minist]

QUOTE (edo17982 @ Feb 6, 2003 - 11:59 AM)

7AFE

Ok. do you know that there is a company out there that makes a turbo kit?

[west_minist]

QUOTE (Jason @ Feb 6, 2003 - 12:20 PM)

I'm thinking about changing my 4AGZE to a 4AGTE possibly.

Good.

What are your plans.?

How can mypost help you and what maybe missing that need to be there that can help you?

[edo17982]

There isn't a specific turbo kit for 7AFE....at JGS they give u what u need like manifold and Turbo...
I've a question for you West.....if I'll add a turbocharger how I need to change CR, cams fases, lifts and valve angle/dimension?

[Guest_Jason_*]

My Plans, I honestly don't have any to tell you the truth. I've already got most of my neccessities to help the Supercharger, but the Idea of going Turbo sits on my shoulder as well whispering "bov... bov... bov". If I do plan to go Turbo, it won't be till next Spring. I can't wait to take the Supercharged Celi to the Track this summer and do some 1/4m runs.

[west_minist]

QUOTE (edo17982 @ Feb 6, 2003 - 5:08 PM)

There isn't a specific turbo kit for 7AFE....at JGS they give u what u need like manifold and Turbo... I've a question for you West.....if I'll add a turbocharger how I need to change CR, cams fases, lifts and valve angle/dimension?

You do not have to.

All you would need is fuel and proper monitoring equipment liek guages to see what is happening

Those stuff will help you to make more.

Turbo just add more air to the engine, putting more stress on the head and other internal parts.

That is why it is good to run low boost like 10psi and less.

[west_minist]

QUOTE (Jason @ Feb 6, 2003 - 5:19 PM)

My Plans, I honestly don't have any to tell you the truth. I've already got most of my neccessities to help the Supercharger, but the Idea of going Turbo sits on my shoulder as well whispering "bov... bov... bov". If I do plan to go Turbo, it won't be till next Spring. I can't wait to take the Supercharged Celi to the Track this summer and do some 1/4m runs.

the Z is good. pretty nice here on the Turbo RWD starlets.

Enjoy it while is last.

Expect a sad change to turbo when changed.

But a little nos will help of the line.

You have 2 choices: a small turbo that spools quick for town driving or a later spooler (bigger turbo) that will give you some rocket boost on top end.

You will have to either change your computer or use some piggy backs to accomodate that change.

[west_minist]

QUOTE (edo17982 @ Feb 6, 2003 - 5:08 PM)

There isn't a specific turbo kit for 7AFE....at JGS they give u what u need like manifold and Turbo... I've a question for you West.....if I'll add a turbocharger how I need to change CR, cams fases, lifts and valve angle/dimension?

I want to ask you one question edo17982?

you see what there offer. There just pull part together on one site for you. it may not be the best, but it is there.

Now tell me something, is my write up the same thing. I assume more than a 6g celica.

In other words, I try to help you make a decision than just some small kit.

[edo17982]

Surely not. your writeup is something that I appreciate very much. It's well done and explain perfectly what I need to do my work.
Maybe we'd a misunderstanding.....what I want to say is that what you wrote is perfect. My only question about it is: which type of works I've to do to my head to have the best with turbo (P&P, cams phase and lift variation, etc...)


Thx!!

[west_minist]

I would advice you to go with a 3GE engine turbo prepare to become 3SGTE.

Why I say this is becuase of your intentions to get more power with more engine developments.

They are a number of stuff you can go.

I am not aware of parts for the engine. That I why I chose the 3GE.

You will have to look at Port and polish, rebore with JE Pistons, balance and forge crank, vavle springs, cams.

Man, look! if I were you, I would forget the 7A and start looking at either the 4AGE or the 3SGE.

Converting to a 3SGE will start you off at 165HP+. You should be able to get a 3rd gen 3SGE.

But if you want to, to can try to source parts for the &A.

But I must warn you that the 7A does not have a performance head like the 4AGE and the 3SGE.

I think that that the 4AGE head can fit the 7AFE engine. Either way, the #S is the way to go.

There are a hell of alot of parts out there to be had by any tuner.

I hope this help.