Fwd 3rd gen 3sgte swaps, 0-100km/h, 400m, 1600m time ? Options

[richee3]

Wheel hop can't really be solved in our cars at all. But as I said, and you know, all you can really do is try to cut down on it. We can find numbers on the ST205 because it was a factory produced car and it was put through several tests. But you will NOT be able to find consistent numbers for a 3S FWD swap because every single swap is different. Everyone is using a different transmission, has different exhaust, etc. No two 3S swaps on here are putting down the same amount of power, nor have they been tested using any standard testing equipment. Just whatever drag strip they've been too. Therefore, every 3S swap will be putting down different numbers. All you can really find is that the 3S swap will be a better top end car and the ST205 will be a better car for launching.

[presure2]

Wheel hop can't really be solved in our cars at all.

thats really not true at all.

what it should say is somthing like

"nobody on this site has put the time / money / research in to figure out what works best to stop wheelhop in our cars."
there are LOTS of things that can be done, from tq bars, bushings, suspension setups, ect...just no one has taken the time or spent the money to figure out what it takes.

RL, it was a 5s"F"te, not "G"te

[RUNNIN-LOW]

Wheel hop can't really be solved in our cars at all.

thats really not true at all.

what it should say is somthing like

"nobody on this site has put the time / money / research in to figure out what works best to stop wheelhop in our cars."
there are LOTS of things that can be done, from tq bars, bushings, suspension setups, ect...just no one has taken the time or spent the money to figure out what it takes.

RL, it was a 5s"F"te, not "G"te

lol! glad your here to correct me!

it was a 5sfte that beat a 3sgte

[richee3]

"nobody on this site has put the time / money / research in to figure out what works best to stop wheelhop in our cars."
there are LOTS of things that can be done, from tq bars, bushings, suspension setups, ect...just no one has taken the time or spent the money to figure out what it takes.

Well, we should get on that. We've had plenty of time to figure this out. I've got a blank canvas sitting in my yard with no real performance plans- a blank slate. Time to start doing some research.

[Culpable04]

the 4 things that have the most impact on your 1/4 mile time on a FWD car are these

1- LSD
2- Coilovers ( rear raised and on its hardest setting, front slightly softer setting and lower than the rear )
3- good tires
4- good driver


if you look into those FWD drag cars running 10s and lower, you'll find that most of them are running solid rear struts, that way there is no kick back, thus keeping the weight on your front tires, LSD will help deliver the power to the ground as well as keeping the car going straight, a good set of drag radials wouldn't hurt at all, and of course someone who can take advantage of this, even with the best setup you need to know your car, and know when to shift, especially on our cars with 3s engine, the torque will smoke the tires very easy if you go past the limit of your tirers.

I'm very confident that someone with enough drag racing experience and the setup I mentioned above can run high 12's on a 3rd gen swapped car.

I have everyting listed except for the " good driver " part lol

[presure2]

high 12's on a 3rd gen swapped 6gc should be as easy as 16-17psi, and a handfull of runs to get the launch down.
hopefully we'll find out for sure this spring/summer.

[quick_5hifter]

1.LSD - when I'll do the swap, I'll keep my GT manual gearbox. Could an LSD for that gearbox do the job?

2.Coilovers - I'm hoping that a set of top adjustable Koni Yellow dampers and a set of Tanabe DF210 springs will successfully replace a set of coilovers. I can set the rear dampers to maximum stiffness (and believe me, they are very firm even now, on OEM springs). Also, the Tanabe springs are supposed to lower the car 2.2 inch in the front and 1.5 in the back. That sounds good if it's true, I haven't received them yet...

How about the clutch? Is that "hybrid" clutch strong enought, considering that the clutch disc would be the small, GT disc?

One question: did any owner of a FWD 3sgte 6 gen Celica do 0-100 km/h in 5 seconds or less? I really don't trust that online calculator, I've calculated 0-100 time for all of my previous cars and it's not very accurate (for example, my Celica with the actual setup should reach 100 km/h in 7,3s, which is 0.6 seconds faster than reality, which seems alot to me).

[Promasta]

fastest confirmed quarter mile by a fwd sixth generation celica was presure2's 13.6.

that wasn't even with a 3sgte, but a 5sfte at 18 psi with drag radials.

for comparison, 2010 subaru sti and mustang gt do 13.5 stock.

that's the huge difference between fwd, rwd, and awd on the drag strip.

[presure2]

fastest confirmed quarter mile by a fwd sixth generation celica was presure2's 13.6.

that wasn't even with a 3sgte, but a 5sfte at 18 psi with drag radials.

for comparison, 2010 subaru sti and mustang gt do 13.5 stock.

that's the huge difference between fwd, rwd, and awd on the drag strip.

lmao...definetly not the quickest/fastest, but can add some detail for refrence.

it was probably ~18-19psi with the 5sfte on a 50/50 mix of 93 pump and 110 sunoco race fuel. (~305 or so whp, and ~320ftlbs)
BFG drag radials ~15-16psi, and still had a 2.+ 60ft time.
ran 108mph trap speed, pleanty enough speed for a mid 12's run with driver mod.
im on the right on the slip:



with the much better top end of the 3rd gen, and the extra ~30+whp available on a stockish setup with ~20-21psi of boost, i would definetly expect a pretty good improvement over that time for any of you guys who take your 3rd gens to the track, with a bit of practice ( i am VERY much still a noob at drag racing)

Reason for edit: edited to add timeslip

[czwalga]

fastest confirmed quarter mile by a fwd sixth generation celica was presure2's 13.6.

that wasn't even with a 3sgte, but a 5sfte at 18 psi with drag radials.

for comparison, 2010 subaru sti and mustang gt do 13.5 stock.

that's the huge difference between fwd, rwd, and awd on the drag strip.

Yep, there might be a certain exception or something but as a general rule FWD is not good for racing.

This post has been edited by czwalga: Jan 21, 2011 - 3:22 PM

[delusionz]

Theres not much in it at all, 4WD will get away 1st, and hold its ground long enough that the FWD will struggle to pass it before 400m.

From there on, Any additional power is more useful to the 4WD since spinning all the way through 3rd gear isnt going to help.

[str8thugginit4ya]

Theres not much in it at all, 4WD will get away 1st, and hold its ground long enough that the FWD will struggle to pass it before 400m.

From there on, Any additional power is more useful to the 4WD since spinning all the way through 3rd gear isnt going to help.

I think you guys are forgetting the fact that a track surface and a regular road surface is completely different. I'm no expert at ALL, but the drag strip is wayyy stickier than normal driving roads. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that help with the wheels pulling the car, rather than spinning out like how it does on normal roads??? I know that it wouldn't stop the spinning out COMPLETELY, but wouldn't it help out a lot? I have a FWD 3S, but I haven't gotten a chance to take this car to the track as yet. If I do anytime soon I'll post up my times.



-Ryan

[Promasta]

lmao...definetly not the quickest/fastest

haha.. ok who's done faster than 13.6? and has a time slip to prove it?

[Culpable04]

not in the same league, but the car who started it all for FWD fans

CLICK !!!

[czwalga]

Pressure 2, You definitely have room to improve. My old supercharged mustang would trap in the 108/109 range, but it ran high 12's just by cutting high 1.7x 60's. Even with FWD, with the bfg's you should be able to get in the 1.9 range I would think, which might get you into the 13.2 range. Bump up the boost a bit you could probably touch the high 12's.

Practice haha!

This post has been edited by czwalga: Jan 25, 2011 - 8:48 PM

[presure2]

Pressure 2, You definitely have room to improve. My old supercharged mustang would trap in the 108/109 range, but it ran high 12's just by cutting high 1.7x 60's. Even with FWD, with the bfg's you should be able to get in the 1.9 range I would think, which might get you into the 13.2 range. Bump up the boost a bit you could probably touch the high 12's.

Practice haha!

ohh most definetly.
i dont hit the track more than maybe once every couple years, i've only been down the track maybe 12-16 times, total.
from all the research i've done with similar configuration cars, a 108mph trap should be good for mid to high 12's on it own.

my crappy 60 ft is what kills me.
FWIW, they say a 10th in the 60 is 2 or 3 10th on the top end.
hell, if i had run a 2.0 60, i would have been in the 12's. and that was with the crap top end of the 5sfte, and the 6k rpm redline. ( = shifting to 5th at the end of the track!)
with the 3rd gen, high 12's should be easy. hopfully ill have a chance to make it to the track this year!

[block]

13-14 second 1/4 is quick enough already. if you want faster, build your whole engine otherwise you'll start breaking things.

[presure2]

13-14 second 1/4 is quick enough already. if you want faster, build your whole engine otherwise you'll start breaking things.

like what?

[str8thugginit4ya]

13-14 second 1/4 is quick enough already. if you want faster, build your whole engine otherwise you'll start breaking things.

Uhh, I've heard of others putting down +700 WHP on the 3SGTE engine and have not even rebuilt any internals. Never seen it first hand, but a bunch of people I know have talked about the same car. Plus, he's been running it at the track for over 6 months now. But that's 3sgTe, I know the non-turbo'd edition has weaker internals.


-Ryan

[quick_5hifter]

... But that's 3sgTe, I know the non-turbo'd edition has weaker internals.

Of course it has. That's why nobody is making any turbo kit for the 3sge, with or without the vvti. The engine is already pushed to its limit by Yamaha. The regular NA 2 liter engines produce about 120-150 hp, while the 3sge already produces 175 hp without any variable valve timing etc. They know that an engine that's already pushed to its limits can't be pushed too far without serious enhancements.

My dilemma is why nobody does forged internals for the 3sge, in order to make it "accept" turbo... It shouldn't be such a big deal