Relocating the engine., Sounds stupid, right? Options

[richee3]

I'm just gonna go ahead and put this on....



Alright, now I'm ready. We all know that our Celicas have terrible weight distribution. Having a cast iron block practically sitting all the way out in front of the axles isn't helping our case any. I'm not saying I want to move the engine to the trunk and have an MR Celica. As a matter of fact, I'm talking about barely moving the engine at all. It wouldn't even be noticeable. But it's well-know that placing your engine lower down and further back helps improve the handling of a car, and our motors weren't placed carefully at all. So I've had this thought in the back of my mind... Can we move ours? I don't have a Celica with a motor in the bay right now, so I can't go look and see how much room I have. I'm not talking huge movement. Just MAYBE an inch lower and an inch further back if there's any room for it. I know some damn good fabricators who are capable of helping me with the mounts. My main question is, can this be done? Maybe extend a hose here, move a wire there? Axles are the biggest issue I see. They would no longer be lined up with the wheel hub, so I'd imagine I would go through CV joints like nobody's business, and I might even have to get a different axle made. What do you guys think? Worth a try or should we lock this thread and ban me now?

[Lil-Joe101]

Tho rear engine Celica would be pretty dope if u ask me.

[yungazzdriver]

I would honestly say just go buy a lotus or a .................MR2

[njccmd2002]

leave engine as is, put cinder blocks in the trunk and add turbo...

honestly try to relocate crap to the back that is not needed in the front. AKA battery, full size spare tire, make a subwoofer box.

Just add some weight in the back and will be better..

[delusionz]

if you manage to find/fabricate all the parts needed to do so, then by all means.

but the way i see it, for what you pay and what you gain, money could be better spent.

the celica is a great handling car as it is with the available options out there like for example lsd, superstrut, coilovers, rear swaybars, polyurethane suspension bushes, etc.

oh yeah, the large rear wing helps keep the back down, keeps it from nose diving at high speeds

[cjh4l22]

Tho rear engine Celica would be pretty dope if u ask me.

i have the diagrams to do this and I've considered it multiple times. its another swap i wanna do. 1 of 3 that've never been done actually lol

[EKAn]

or you could go with a lighter engine? v6 are lighter I believe, and faster.

[richee3]

Not moving the engine to the back. That's what the MR2 is for. I'm only considering moving it a slight bit- like I said, MAYBE down an inch if there's room and MAYBE back an inch if there's room.

Noberto- I've already got my battery in the trunk. No spare tire though, so that's not helping my case any. There will be a sub in the car after I get it running, but only a 10". I might as well have a pair of socks in the trunk to try to help the balance of the car, because a 10" sub won't do much.

Delusionz- I agree that the Celica handles great. But these poor puny USDM models need all the help they can get. I'm putting a slightly better motor than the 5S under the hood, but I'll still be sub-200 hp. I'm contemplating LSD, but like I said, I'm not going to have loads of power when I'm done. Better handling will make this car faster than the engine I'm dropping in it. Also, the fabricators I'm talking about, one is my uncle and the other is a good friend from high school. So I can get the mounts made for free, assuming there's room in the engine bay to move the motor around.

EKAn- There are a few V6 options that are lighter than a 5S, but I've got the IS 300 for when I want a 6 cylinder. My Celica will be more of a DD/gas mileage car than anything else, but I figure if I can help it out in the corners, why not? For what it's worth though, I've considered swapping in a V6 and the work involved with that would be very similar to attempting to relocate the factory motor mounts since I'd have to have custom mounts made either way.

[EKAn]

What engine are you planning to drop in? If you have the resources and its done safely I say do it.

[trdproven]

if you don't have a motor inside the engine bay now and want to experiment, make it a RWD. you have the resources. Thats what a lot of my older friends who have been mechanics since kids do with their cars. Not the best example but a taste of their skillset is right now for the moment they are rocking Hilux 22R and Tacoma 3RZ turbo motors in their 86 corollas, with 11 second 1/4 times and we are near the equator/high humidity (heat). But anyway they've been forcing me to let them do a RWD conversion on my celi, my celi is too mint right now to mess around this early. Resources, money, time, talent = unique quality machines.

This post has been edited by trdproven: Mar 21, 2011 - 2:36 AM

[richee3]

EKAn- I'm keeping the motor under wraps right now. It's nothing too crazy, but it's never been put in a Celica and I can't figure out why not. It'll be peppier than a 5S but not as powerful as a Redtop BEAMS.

trdproven- I'm not feeling going all out and making a RWD Celica. That's more money in parts than I'm wanting to spend on the car, but the fabricators I know could definitely make it happen with some measurements.

I should also specify that this car won't be a track car, just a DD. Moving the motor won't make a huge difference. I might take it to an autocross event or two, and that's where the only real benefit of moving the motor would come in. I'm just wondering if it's possible or worth it.

[presure2]

It wont go back more than an inch or so without hitting the firewall on accel.
Down is tough cause of ground clearance.

[lagos]

There really is no space to move it. Your best bet is to try to relocate things like the battery to the back of the car to balance it better.

[Culpable04]

that's what sound systems are for, to get you closer to 50/50 weight distribuiton

[Euphoria]

An inch back really isn't going to be a noticeable increase, much better focusing on other mods, putting a lighter engine in it such as a 4AGE with an LSD would be a noticeable difference in handling.

The engine is also sitting up for a reason, you don't want the oil pan to be even closer to the road as it will be much more likely to rupture it! cars that have engines that sit lower would most likely have a short oil pan also.

This post has been edited by Euphoria: Mar 21, 2011 - 8:00 PM

[cjh4l22]

An inch back really isn't going to be a noticeable increase, much better focusing on other mods, putting a lighter engine in it such as a 4AGE with an LSD would be a noticeable difference in handling.

The engine is also sitting up for a reason, you don't want the oil pan to be even closer to the road as it will be much more likely to rupture it! cars that have engines that sit lower would most likely have a short oil pan also.

eh... idk if this is necessarily true... granted its a different car but i had a friend move his engine back 1.25" in his mustang and it took it to perfect 50/50. (why they didn't do this at the factory is beyond me)

[richee3]

I know it won't move much. We don't have a huge engine bay to play around with. I just figured if I can get the weight a little further back behind the front axles without destroying anything, it would be worth it. As I said earlier, I have the battery in the trunk already and I'll have a sound system too, but it'll only be a 10" sub so it isn't shifting the weight of the car anywhere. Besides, I'm trying to keep from adding more weight than I have to.

Euphoria, good call about the oil pan. I honestly hadn't even considered that yet. I was thinking more in terms of motor mounts, intake manifold hitting the firewall, and various hoses that would need to be moved/extended.

I'm not trying to build a super high horsepower car or a track car, so moving the engine has no real benefit to me beyond saying I have better balance. I just thought if I can do it, why shouldn't I? But I have no Celica with a motor sitting in the bay right now, so I'm merely trying to remember how much room I had in the engine bay and hypothesizing about the possibility of relocating the motor.

[Hanyo]

you guys do realize 50 50 weight distribution for a fwd is not the best set up.


But to comment on your original idea, Toyota has already attempted to move the engine further back and lower the center of gravity with the 5sfe. If you haven't notice the 5sfe slopes back towards the firewall. By mounting the engine at a slope, it is lower the engine and sets it further back. If you attempt to slope the engine some more, it will interfere with oil flow and can potentially blow the engine up. By moving the engine back, you will affect axle geometry that can cause binding as the suspension travels up and down.
here is the illustrate my example. of what toyota did:



this is the b18 engine in a honda. notice how the engine is mounted straight up and down.

[yellowchinaman]

It'll be a lot of work for a no noticeable difference.
Like what most people said, you're better off relocating:
Washer bottle, Battery, even break fluid and pump and even the entire radiator system and water tank with some extreme plumbing.
Moving it back isn't imposable. You can cut back the fire wall by about 6 inches allowing much more space and even move back the drivers position and controls too at the same time which allows better weight distribution.
But for the amount of money you spend doing so, a lighter engine would be much better.

[czwalga]

Complete and utter waste of time. I'm ususally pretty reasonible and understanding of questions, but this one only has one answer.

The amount of fabricating you'd have to do would be insane for really no reason.