front mount or A2W??, i want your opinon Options

[TRD_Ian]

so i have been seeing this alot lately 3s running a front mount and also alot of gt4's with front mounts and got rid of the top mount a2w they had stock. now is this just an issue of money and simplicity? obviously a front mount is real simple and wont set you back as much as a2w ic would but why would you get rid of one if it came on your motor stock?

let me know what you guys think, i plan on boosting my 5s and running a a2w ic system

[qatar11]

so i have been seeing this alot lately 3s running a front mount and also alot of gt4's with front mounts and got rid of the top mount a2w they had stock. now is this just an issue of money and simplicity? obviously a front mount is real simple and wont set you back as much as a2w ic would but why would you get rid of one if it came on your motor stock?

let me know what you guys think, i plan on boosting my 5s and running a a2w ic system

IMHO - If its good enough for WRC its good enough for me.

[lagos]

because people always want what they don't have. both do the job. flip a coin and decide what one you like.

[TRD_Ian]

true enough both do the job, is it worth the extra money for a2w for the gains you will get tho?

[qatar11]

I would say this.... outside of buying a 3rd 3SGTE - I am not sure its worth (in dollars and cents) going out of your way to get a W2A

[presure2]

On a basic 5sfte setup, a FMIC will be cheaper than a W2A setup.
Price aside, a proprly built A2W system can cool your IAT's to below ambient, ( with the use of ice ect...) which a fmic will not be able to do, but, by the same token, once the ice melts, and the coolant of your choice heats up, it won't be able to recover as fast as a fmic will.
IMO I wouldn't use an A2W system unless I was 100% sure I could build a system that would cover my current goals as well as whatever I wanted in the future.
Fmic are cheap these days, and setting up the piping is pretty easy once you take a look around at what everyone is using and plan it out accordingly.

[dustin15brown]

i have been wondering this exact same thing for a couple of weeks now. I have the 3sgte sitting there.... but haven't decided which way I wanna go

[Harold_Fastwaker]

There is no point to run an aftermarket A2W setup for daily driving. When it is 95 degrees outside your water is going to be the same or hotter. Atleast with A2A once you start driving it will cool down your temps. A2W is better used for drag racing when they can dump bags of ice on it and gain the max they can in a short span. Why bother running a water setup if you need a radiator on that just to keep the water temps down. You are putting more work into it then you need.

Yes, I realize toyota did A2W stock, yes I realize a member here if not others have done a A2W setup. And yes, I think it is stupid and a waste of money which could be better spent elsewhere on the car.

[azian_advanced]

if money and the extra weight weren't an issue, i'd go with w2a. water generally has better cooling properties than air. but the w2a system has a lot of components (heat exchanger, pump, i/c, etc) and without proper heat transfer analysis, your w2a system is only as good as the weakest component.

overall, going with an a2a would be the simplest and cost effective route. bigger ic = better cooling in most cases (without taking pressure drop and core density into consideration). plus it gives you a bit of that bling factor through the bumper grill

[TRD_Ian]

i have a few friends that have built a2w systems and i love the look of all the plumbing under the hood and the difference it made in the cars performance, but this is why i wanted your guys opinons. id like to go a2w but i dunno if i can justify spend that much money and doing that much more work when the same can be had with a a2a front mount. the rate things are going with my budget its more then likely gonna end up a front mount set up..

[Harold_Fastwaker]

What cars do your buddies have that are A2W?



Yes, water has better cooling properties, but you have to counter in the problem of having three times the amount of parts to run a water setup. As I stated before, running a water setup on a DD is really pointless. It is just another thing to worry about and you will not see the benefits unless you were drag racing or doing some type of short run races. Unless you want to run some sort of ac condenser which can keep the water temps down.

This post has been edited by Harold_Fastwaker: Oct 24, 2009 - 9:12 PM

[TRD_Ian]

one is a rb25 swaped gtst and the other is a gti r

[3WayStunna]

My car came with the WTA setup already. Im not wasting my time going front mount anytime soon, due to my goals with the car, and just plain ol " if it aint broke, dont fix it" attitude with the setup. Although, if i were in swapping in a 3sgte in a USDM celica, then sure id go with the A2A intercooler, mostly because of its simplicity and money issues (from what i have read so far at least).

[Nial]

IMHO - If its good enough for WRC its good enough for me.

Thw WRC cars didnt get what you have though..they were a little different, bigger charge coolers than production cars, also to keep the temps down they also had to run Water Injection and spray bars.

FMIC is cheaper, easier, more effective and dam ugly...I hate them....W2A for me any day

[_Jim_]

FMIC is NOT better than a properly setup W2A IC system. Yes, it is cheaper, but that is about it. I wont get into my opinion of why anymore then that, so I will let you conduct your own research. Most people seem to talking on opinion rather then the actual physics of how these 2 units actualy work.

Look up turbulent flow, and Reynolds theory....you can then make your decision from there.

Here are a few to get you started.
turbulent flow
Reynolds number

Later when I have time I will plot my setup for you so you can see first hand what all these numbers and letters mean.

[delusionz]

W2A also has the advantage of a short path like in regular top mount IC, so would reduce lag and pressure drop.

Only thing is, I'd imagine it would be difficult to mount the ST205 cooler on a non ST205 engine since the mounting bolts wont be there and also your 5S inlet manifold is a side feed not a centre feed.

So in which case you would have to go for an aftermarket item which probably wont have any mounting equipment at all, meaning it would have to be suspended somewhere probably resulting in just as long if not longer IC piping.

W2A works great on a stock ST205 and I wouldn't change to a FMIC ever. Unfortunately for your setup its probably more costly and more trouble than it's worth.

[Mstoochn]

FMIC is NOT better than a properly setup W2A IC system. Yes, it is cheaper, but that is about it. I wont get into my opinion of why anymore then that, so I will let you conduct your own research. Most people seem to talking on opinion rather then the actual physics of how these 2 units actualy work.

Look up turbulent flow, and Reynolds theory....you can then make your decision from there.

Here are a few to get you started.
turbulent flow
Reynolds number

Later when I have time I will plot my setup for you so you can see first hand what all these numbers and letters mean.

jim pulled an MR2OC on us!!!! omg

i asume you dont plan to find a gen3/gen1 TMIC a2w IC with head exchanger and pump?

[nsxtypeR]

You don't want a gen 1 WTA IC. That core is so much smaller then a gen 3 WTA IC!!!

[Mstoochn]

You don't want a gen 1 WTA IC. That core is so much smaller then a gen 3 WTA IC!!!

how much power r u trying to make with the stock gen3 w2a?

[_Jim_]

You can make as much as you want, its not the core that is the weakest link of the system, it is the pump. Then from there, you can upgrade to a larger heat exchanger....and that setup will support any amount of HP that you or anybody else will throw at it.