3sgte, JDM swap Options

[Bladey]

Hello all, i have been reading your forum quite a while now and love it, and what a car the celica is

i have a 1996 st202 3sge 5 speed manual currently and would been keen to do a 3sgte swap, i have a few questions of corse and ive researched a lot but most of the swaps are american and hence are quite different ( engine, LHD, clutch, wiring) etc

So i have access to a 3sgte from a st185 or sw20 mr2 for quite cheap (being in NZ has its advantages)

if i get one of these engines how hard is it to put in? will i need to do the hybrid clutch set up as i have read about? will the ecu and wiring be quite difficult and how hard is it to make it a front mount intercooler? as getting a gt4 hood is almost impossible and if so 700 bucks is far to much imo

Any other things i may have to worry about?

cheers guys

[Rusty]

Firstly welcome, its great to see more NZ'ers joning

Heres your GT4 hood, $500 NZ (look you already saved $200.) But should look at getting the rest of the front (hood latch, bumber and support parts or do a SS-Four front)

The Gen 2 3S-GTE your speaking about has just over 30kw over your 3S-GE (133kw), where as the Gen 3 3S-GTE has over 50kw, and Gen 4 3S-GTE about 60kw, these (gen 3 & 4 3S-GTE) would best suited to swap over imo (*kw taken from flywheel)

The Gen 3 3S-GTE would be the easier of the 3 to swap over, as your carrying it over from a ST205 to a ST202. Less stressful on wiring, no worries about RHD to LHD, the clutch you may still need to do as the USA uses the same* 5 speed trans (S54-##X)

How hard is it to do a swap? Well thats up to you and your know how, $$$, skill level and if you have the tools, space etc or have connects at a garage to get it done there.

And the other thing you have to remember is that this will need to have a lvvta cert (~$500) for the engine swap to be able to keep it legal on the road... plus it may require you to upgrade other parts like your brakes to met the safety standards. And thats $500 each time for a cert, so if you want to install adj. coilovers, wheel spacers, fixed bucket seats etc. Then its smart to get them all installed all at once, then go get a cert, so you only have to pay one fee for getting a cert.


Better yet have some NA fun with your ST202 with suspension mods and for the 3S-GE: camshafts, H/C, ECU, high revs.........


...or you could buy a real ST205 GT-Four?

[delusionz]

that hybrid clutch thing is only for the USA guys, their 5s-fe/s54 has different **** to us

[delusionz]

if u can get a newer 3sgte its got advantages of more power out of the box

3sgte gen 3 will be easier to wire in

but gen 2 is said to be the stronger block

[Bladey]

Cheers guys, Yeah celica's are pretty common over here but heaps of 3sfe

Ye i would perfer to get a gen 3 but they are quite hard to find and redline want 3k for theres which i feel is a bit of a rip, also reading the MR2 power primer the gen 2 can make quite a bit of power at stock just buy increasing the boost to 15psi ( before fuel cut off)

what kinda brakes will i need for a cert? my car already has adjustable coil overs so that should be ok

Cheers Guys

[delusionz]

Do you have front twin pots already? If not try find a set of those

[delusionz]

If you cant get a gen3 then get a gen4. Or don't bother, Just sell up and get an ST205 lol... you get alot more car for the money compared to swapping a motor

[Bladey]

I have factory 2 pots, its ss II with a LSD, so gen 3 or gen 4? is gen 2 really that difficult?

[PolliS_5S-FE]

theres a decent looking gt4 on trademe at the mo for $7500 asking price. 250km though the guy seems pretty desperate to sell it

Edit, theres also a 3sgte out of caldina thats done 128km for $1400 on tm, complete apparently

This post has been edited by PolliS_5S-FE: Apr 17, 2011 - 7:53 PM

[mkernz22]

Cheers guys, Yeah celica's are pretty common over here but heaps of 3sfe

Ye i would perfer to get a gen 3 but they are quite hard to find and redline want 3k for theres which i feel is a bit of a rip, also reading the MR2 power primer the gen 2 can make quite a bit of power at stock just buy increasing the boost to 15psi ( before fuel cut off)

With just those minor upgrades on the gen 2, it will equal just about the same as a stock gen 3 engine. If you do the same mods to both engines, the gen 3 will have a bit more power than the gen 2

[Bladey]

Ye found the caldina, there was a St185 3sgte on ther a while ago for 500 that i was about to buy, on a side note anyone know where to get a rear strut from? thanks for the mkernz, do gen 2's use MAF or MAP sensors?

[Rusty]

the brakes are up to your certifers opinion so best to get in touch with a certifer who can cert engine conversions. Since you already have adjustable coilovers, you've already undergone a cert... haven't you

Gen 2 uses AFM/MAF (same thing)

and I've pm'ed you regarding the rear strutbrace.

[delusionz]

Cheers guys, Yeah celica's are pretty common over here but heaps of 3sfe

Ye i would perfer to get a gen 3 but they are quite hard to find and redline want 3k for theres which i feel is a bit of a rip, also reading the MR2 power primer the gen 2 can make quite a bit of power at stock just buy increasing the boost to 15psi ( before fuel cut off)

With just those minor upgrades on the gen 2, it will equal just about the same as a stock gen 3 engine. If you do the same mods to both engines, the gen 3 will have a bit more power than the gen 2

It makes no sense to go Gen 2 in NZ. You don't understand we have all the JDM cars here, a ct20b is hard to come by on it's own though since they've all been snapped up by Gen2 MR2 and ST185 owners.

It makes sense in the USA as you have local stock of Gen 2 and would have to import Gen 3 making Gen 2 + mods an equally feasibile option.

Here the Gen 2 had it's day, and died out a long time ago when every man and his dog owned and raped an SW20 or ST185 (The market value of an ST185 from 2005 to 2009 went from $5000 to $2000 for a good runner). Now they are hard to come by.

The Gen 3 went much the same way, except started with fewer numbers.

The Gen 4 is in abundance at the moment as GT-T Caldinas are wrecked left right and centre.

Anyways, going off topic here so the bottom line is. Gen 2 requires alot more effort to install and makes low power for a 2L turbo. the upgrade doesnt really make good value for the money and time spent