96 7afe (M) into a 95 7afe(A) celica., question reguards to swapping it over. Options

[mandrek]

hey all i have a few questions that a few hours of idle searches and reading have not been able to help me find the info that i need..

i have a 95 ST auto that had the motor go out on, and i just picked up a 96 manual st as a parts car. right now ALL that i want to do is swap the motor over. JUST the motor, ill may do an auto to manual swap later, but not what im concerned about ATM. now i know that there is a difrence between the two 7Afe's (95-to-96) in reguards to power output from the factory. but what it was understanding was that it was just a tune from the factory, and the addition of some emissions stuff.

what i would like to do right now at this point is get my car back on the road. so i was wondering if there are any difrences in reguards to the motor that will give me problems when switching it over, plugs, sensors, ecu-harness, etc..

or will i be able to just pull the motor from the 96, slap it on the auto, drop it in the 95, and plug everything up. and get on my way?

i could write more and make this alot more winded than it is, but i want to keep it simple.

thank you in advance for any relative info.

mandrek.

[Smaay]

just pull the engine and use your manifold and sensors. since the parts car is a 96, there is a chance that its an ODBII car so there will be some differences. I have a guide on the forums on how to pull the engine out of the car. just follow that and you should be good to go.

just use your distributor and intake manifold with the sensors.

pull the tranny out with the engine. you will have to take off the clutch and flywheel so you can put the flexplate on for the auto tranny. trust me, its so much easier to do this out of the car.

[mandrek]

just pull the engine and use your manifold and sensors. since the parts car is a 96, there is a chance that its an ODBII car so there will be some differences. I have a guide on the forums on how to pull the engine out of the car. just follow that and you should be good to go.

just use your distributor and intake manifold with the sensors.

pull the tranny out with the engine. you will have to take off the clutch and flywheel so you can put the flexplate on for the auto tranny. trust me, its so much easier to do this out of the car.

sweet, thank you smaay! yeah i was going to pull the whole thing out but just not use the manual this time around.. and so you think that just the dizzy and the intake many would be all that i need off of the 95?

and you bring up an interesting point.. about the ODBII, but i was under the impression that the 94-97 was all ODBII or ODBI and that there was not a transition from I to II during those years.. hmm does anyone know how i can identify this? would it be written on the ECU casing or perhaps by the dignostics port, or somthing of that nature.. i would like to be as ready as posible with both cars before pulling the motor/trans.

ill go over your guide, thank you

when i finally do this ill be sure to post and keep up with the updates and the findings. thank you. (should be about 2 weeks out)

[stephen_lee]

IMO it'd be easier to do the auto-manual swap. repin starter wire, drill 3 holes, mount clutch pedal and brake pedal, swap shifter assy & cables, then drop in unit as a whole.

i think the auto-manual swap in this case would be faster than pulling the auto off ur blown motor (so-so job) pulling the manual off the new(easier) swapping flywheels, clutch, torque converter (dont use an impact...), and stabbing the auto onto the new motor(a btich). just my opinion...

but take it from a guy who did this exact swap in a weekend alone...

[mandrek]

IMO it'd be easier to do the auto-manual swap. repin starter wire, drill 3 holes, mount clutch pedal and brake pedal, swap shifter assy & cables, then drop in unit as a whole.

i think the auto-manual swap in this case would be faster than pulling the auto off ur blown motor (so-so job) pulling the manual off the new(easier) swapping flywheels, clutch, torque converter (dont use an impact...), and stabbing the auto onto the new motor(a btich). just my opinion...

but take it from a guy who did this exact swap in a weekend alone...

i agree, but i will still be putting the auto back in.. only because, the blown motor (and auto) has been out of the car and broken down for more than a year now, all of the parts just sitting in my garage waiting for a new/rebuilt motor, im out of time now, and need to just get it back on the road, and since all of the stuff is already broken down and pretty much ready to go, i simply need a motor. not doing the manual swap at this time would actualy save me a fair amount of time..

BUT...it is nice to know that when i do go to do the swap that it is not that difficult to do.
thank you for the heads u p

[mandrek]

anyone got info on how to identify the diffrences between ODBI and ODBII?

[stephen_lee]

OBDII should have a diag box inside the car under the steering wheel.

[mandrek]

OBDII should have a diag box inside the car under the steering wheel.

ok cool i'll go check right now.. thank you!

[mandrek]

yup, there it is , plane as day w/ a BIG plasic cap on it "OBDII"

[presure2]

The obd2 stuff isn't a big deal, its all controlled by the ecu.
Do like smayy suggested, and you will be good to go.
Use the harness and ecu from the car it'd be going in, and all the accessories as well.

[Bitter]

anyone got info on how to identify the diffrences between ODBI and ODBII?

OBD2 7A-FE has a crank position sensor to aid in isolating misfires to a specific cylinder and alot more self diagnostics. I think OBD2 also got sequential injection to help with emissions and smoother idle not to mention ALL OBD2 year 7A's (that I know of) have EGR and a different intake plenum design as well as a slightly retuned ecm program for lower emissions, and an additional catalyst right off the exhaust manifold. you loose 2-5hp and gain 2-3tq which isn't even noticeable.

OBD1 has no crank sensor, some don't have EGR, some/most only have one cat and one O2 sensor, some have the older style intake plenum, less self diagnostic ability, and the injectors fire in pairs.

[mandrek]

anyone got info on how to identify the diffrences between ODBI and ODBII?

OBD2 7A-FE has a crank position sensor to aid in isolating misfires to a specific cylinder and alot more self diagnostics. I think OBD2 also got sequential injection to help with emissions and smoother idle not to mention ALL OBD2 year 7A's (that I know of) have EGR and a different intake plenum design as well as a slightly retuned ecm program for lower emissions, and an additional catalyst right off the exhaust manifold. you loose 2-5hp and gain 2-3tq which isn't even noticeable.

OBD1 has no crank sensor, some don't have EGR, some/most only have one cat and one O2 sensor, some have the older style intake plenum, less self diagnostic ability, and the injectors fire in pairs.

well, damn.. if that is so, then it looks like i should be planning to swapping everything over then... i have boost planned for the futur of this car, and the sequential injection and th rest of the sensors would go a long way to having better control and presice tuning... right?

hmm...

oh, and thank you very much for the information!!!

[stephen_lee]

its harder to fool newer ECUs into accepting a tune, so id keep the older stuff.

[mandrek]

its harder to fool newer ECUs into accepting a tune, so id keep the older stuff.

was planning on using a greddy ultamate e-manage.... hmm.. i was also under the impreassion that due to the increased computer control on the ignition timeing on the obdII that the greddy ultamate e-manage would work better looks like i got a good bit more reading to do..

ive done alot of research already, but most of it was done a few years ago and my notes are kind of all over the place,... i've also re-read all of big F/I threads, (steff, oobi, hafkai, smaay, presure2, etc) and have a solid plan of attack on my project, but one thing that i have not seen too much info on was just what is being discussed here, the big difrences between the OBDI and OBDII... from all that i have seen suggest that when using a simple fuel trimming device (such as the SAFC-II) that the OBDII IS harder to "fool", (i definatly agree with that statement). but when using a better piggy back system (as in the greddy ultamate e-manage) or even a stand alone system, that all of the additional inputs and other changes in the OBDII system (as a whole, not just the 7afe/celica) offer better controll through the ECU.





And back to the root topic, from the feed back that i have been getting it would seem that i will have to swapp it all over anyways... i still need to get the second car here (currently one car is here and the other is still 200 miles away), but when i get them both here, side by side, ill take pix and post any difrences that i find in reguards to harnes, ecu, etc.. if i can get away with not swapping the body/in-cabin harnes (mainly looking at the ecu side here) i would be very happy. it will save me soo much time.

This post has been edited by mandrek: Aug 15, 2011 - 4:42 PM

[Bitter]

problem with a piggy back for boost is that you'll be seeing boost at part throttle when ecm is trying to keep a stoich ratio and you'll want something a little richer. Open loop is only around 80% throttle or higher I think, not sure specifically. the ecm is going to use fuel trims to compensate and lean it out, 'fighting' your tune with a piggy back. If you want a turbo that runs like it came from the factory, sorry but stand alone is the way to go. I know it costs more but it'll be worth it. Can you run a piggy back with success, of course! Will you out grow it sooner than later if you want to grow some? Oh yea.

[celica-s]

The 7afe OBDII should be distributor less sir, hence its got a crank sensor.

[Bitter]

Not in the US, the A series has a distributor till it's death in 1999. the ZZ series, its successor has coils.

[stephen_lee]

Bitter is right. In the US we got a dizzy still, but lost the option to "rotate" it to adjust base timing. thats handled by the ECU relative to the readings it gets from the crank position sensor.