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> Need Help with 5SFE!
post Aug 18, 2011 - 8:26 PM
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Scosh

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Hey guys, I just changed out my head gasket not too long ago. After everything was put back together I drove it around a bit and the ride was good as I expected. But a few days after I tried to just floor it to see what it would sound like(just got my exhaust done 2.5" catback and custom intake). Yeah it sounded really nice but I noticed the more the RPM rose the more power was loss, but the engine got louder at 4500RPM and it reminded me of the VTEC that Honda has. I know its a 5SFE and they are like boat anchors, but it sounds to me that my timing may be off. Heres a video of what I was trying to describe, sorry for the poor quality it was hard to try to record, steer, and shift at the same time kindasad.gif



post Aug 19, 2011 - 9:36 PM
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199celica

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sounds to me like your distributor isn't being advanced as it should be there can be a series of problems bud but you will have to ask around on the forum to me it sounds like your rotor maybe going bad or you may have moved a tooth off of the timing belt haha dam twin cams mad.gif yeah buddy

sounds to me like your distributor isn't being advanced as it should be there can be a series of problems bud but you will have to ask around on the forum to me it sounds like your rotor maybe going bad or you may have moved a tooth off of the timing belt haha dam twin cams mad.gif yeah buddy
post Aug 20, 2011 - 5:22 PM
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6G96GT

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I believe you'll lose low end power from the exhaust upgrade anyway, maybe that's the loss you are experiencing compared to when you had it stock before? If it were head gasket related, you'd prolly have symptoms relative to it still. How many miles you got on it?

How well does it start up when you turn it on?
Climb a hill (if you can) under good acceleration and see if it hesitates or pings at all.
Plus I think your idle would be a bit rough too if timing was off.
post Aug 20, 2011 - 5:40 PM
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Scosh

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It has close to 180k miles and it struggles to start. I hooked it up to a scan tool and I have missfires on cylinder 3 sometimes. And I wasn't worried about the low end torque, it just doesn't sound right whenever it gets into the higher rpms.
post Aug 21, 2011 - 12:12 AM
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199celica

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Might sound dumb but most cars do misfire under low idle not to much but they do thats y msd helps with gas mileage so much when your at a stop light a car will tend to misfire not enough to notice but it does occur check ur plugs, plug wires, dizzy, and primary coil and see where u get urself man
post Aug 21, 2011 - 11:40 AM
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hatchy_gt-s



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Does your battery light always turn off when you acc? If so thats your issue right there and its most likely your alternator isn't generating enough voltage so it's drawing power from your motor at high end. Also you just had to do a head gasket and whenever you do an engine rebuild to OEM spec it will never have the power it originally had.
post Aug 21, 2011 - 12:21 PM
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199celica

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You kno i just got to talking to my girlfriend and she made a good point man maybe you need to reset your a/f ratio basically you pull the negative cable off of the batter post and pull your relays for about 10 mins put them back in start it up it might run like crap for a little while but it will readjust and soon run better than ever
post Aug 21, 2011 - 5:09 PM
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hatchy_gt-s



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QUOTE (199celica @ Aug 21, 2011 - 1:21 PM) *
You kno i just got to talking to my girlfriend and she made a good point man maybe you need to reset your a/f ratio basically you pull the negative cable off of the batter post and pull your relays for about 10 mins put them back in start it up it might run like crap for a little while but it will readjust and soon run better than ever

I dont mean to sound like a dick, but thats the most futile thing ever... As a technician i see more cars come in because they did that thinking it would fix something.
Relays are just switches that are activated by electromagnetic fields and disconnecting the battery only resets RAM and your A/F is in your PROM.
(This is why you dont let girlfriends think they know how to work on cars)

Edit:
RAM- Randomly Accessed Memory
PROM- Programed Read Only Memory

This post has been edited by hatchy_gt-s: Aug 21, 2011 - 5:12 PM
post Aug 21, 2011 - 5:14 PM
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stephen_lee



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actually this generation of engine DOES same small changes in the fuel map in the ecu, along with idle positions and timingg settings, and shift settings if its an auto. its in the BGB so toyota reccoments tis after work affecting engine VE.

pull the efi fuse in the engine bay. sit 10 sec for obd1 and 10 min for obd2. start car let idle 5min (auto only) put in D for 1 minute. drive at moderate throttle position (20-50%) untill 4th gear. relearn is complete. (except fine tune, which your ecu will do for up to 100 starts)


BUT this will def not cause a serious problem... lol

This post has been edited by stephen_lee: Aug 21, 2011 - 5:20 PM


--------------------
QUOTE
"And, as always, your friendship, help, and dedication to the advancement of Texas Celica dominance is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks bro." -DEATH

1994 GT: V6 swap, 5speed E53 W/ LSD, All Power, now RED
1995 ST: SOLD @273k miles, Auto, all power, CarPC, White
1994 ST: Totaled, 5spd, all power, Red RIP 07/09/09 @ 241,810
1994 Lexus LS400: This is my new DD
post Aug 21, 2011 - 5:17 PM
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stephen_lee



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but pulling relays = no point


--------------------
QUOTE
"And, as always, your friendship, help, and dedication to the advancement of Texas Celica dominance is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks bro." -DEATH

1994 GT: V6 swap, 5speed E53 W/ LSD, All Power, now RED
1995 ST: SOLD @273k miles, Auto, all power, CarPC, White
1994 ST: Totaled, 5spd, all power, Red RIP 07/09/09 @ 241,810
1994 Lexus LS400: This is my new DD
post Aug 21, 2011 - 5:25 PM
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hatchy_gt-s



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QUOTE (stephen_lee @ Aug 21, 2011 - 6:14 PM) *
actually this generation of engine DOES same small changes in the fuel map in the ecu, along with idle positions and timingg settings, and shift settings if its an auto. its in the BGB so toyota reccoments tis after work affecting engine VE.

pull the efi fuse in the engine bay. sit 10 sec for obd1 and 10 min for obd2. start car let idle 5min (auto only) drive at moderate throttle position (20-50%) untill 4th gear. relearn is complete. (except fine tune, which your ecu will do for up to 100 starts)


BUT this will def not cause a serious problem... lol


NO that only resets long/short fuel trim not you A/F ratio the only way to change that is with reprograming. Timing is also PROM.

WHY DO YOU PEOPLE THINK FUSES AND RELAYS ARE MAGIC!!! All removing the EFI fuse accomplishes is disconecting the the power from the fuel pump THATS ALL, it doesnt have magic powers that resets programs. Removing the battery does the same thing as pulling fuses or relays.

QUOTE (stephen_lee @ Aug 21, 2011 - 6:17 PM) *
but pulling relays = no point


Same thing with fuses.
post Aug 21, 2011 - 8:24 PM
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stephen_lee



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as stated, SMALL CHANGES in the fuel map. not huge. just small "trims" that particular motor runs better on.

Copied from the BGB

"
Vehicles equipped with engine or transmission computers
require a relearn procedure after vehicle battery is disconnected.
Many vehicle computers memorize and store vehicle operation patterns
for optimum driveability and performance. When vehicle battery is
disconnected, this memory is lost. The computer will use default data
until new data from each key start is stored. As computer memorizes
vehicle operation for each new key start...the following complaints
(driveability problems) may exist:

* Harsh Or Poor Shift Quality
* Rough Or Unstable Idle
* Hesitation Or Stumble
* Rich Or Lean Running
* Poor Fuel Mileage

Automatic Transmission

* Set parking brake, start engine in "P" or "N" position.
Warm-up vehicle to normal operating temperature or until
cooling fan cycles.
* Allow vehicle to idle for one minute in "N" position. Select
"D" and allow engine to idle for one minute.
* Accelerate at normal throttle position (20-50%) until vehicle
shifts into top gear.
* Cruise at light to medium throttle.
* Decelerate to a stop, allowing vehicle to downshift, and use
brakes normally.
* Process may be repeated as necessary.

Manual Transmission

* Place transmission in Neutral position.
* Ensure emergency brake has been set and all accessories
are turned off.
* Start engine and bring to normal operating temperature.
* Allow vehicle to idle in Neutral for one minute.
* Initial relearn is complete: process will be completed during
normal driving.
"

EFI fuse powers:
Circuit opening relay
ECU
Fuel sender and pump
Idle air control valve
Various VSVs


This stuff is straight from the toyota manuals.


--------------------
QUOTE
"And, as always, your friendship, help, and dedication to the advancement of Texas Celica dominance is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks bro." -DEATH

1994 GT: V6 swap, 5speed E53 W/ LSD, All Power, now RED
1995 ST: SOLD @273k miles, Auto, all power, CarPC, White
1994 ST: Totaled, 5spd, all power, Red RIP 07/09/09 @ 241,810
1994 Lexus LS400: This is my new DD
post Aug 21, 2011 - 8:29 PM
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stephen_lee



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and again, this doesnt sound like it will help in your case.

get a timing light and set timing. i bet its off


--------------------
QUOTE
"And, as always, your friendship, help, and dedication to the advancement of Texas Celica dominance is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks bro." -DEATH

1994 GT: V6 swap, 5speed E53 W/ LSD, All Power, now RED
1995 ST: SOLD @273k miles, Auto, all power, CarPC, White
1994 ST: Totaled, 5spd, all power, Red RIP 07/09/09 @ 241,810
1994 Lexus LS400: This is my new DD
post Aug 21, 2011 - 8:30 PM
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samir0189



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QUOTE (hatchy_gt-s @ Aug 21, 2011 - 6:25 PM) *
QUOTE (stephen_lee @ Aug 21, 2011 - 6:14 PM) *
actually this generation of engine DOES same small changes in the fuel map in the ecu, along with idle positions and timingg settings, and shift settings if its an auto. its in the BGB so toyota reccoments tis after work affecting engine VE.

pull the efi fuse in the engine bay. sit 10 sec for obd1 and 10 min for obd2. start car let idle 5min (auto only) drive at moderate throttle position (20-50%) untill 4th gear. relearn is complete. (except fine tune, which your ecu will do for up to 100 starts)


BUT this will def not cause a serious problem... lol


NO that only resets long/short fuel trim not you A/F ratio the only way to change that is with reprograming. Timing is also PROM.

WHY DO YOU PEOPLE THINK FUSES AND RELAYS ARE MAGIC!!! All removing the EFI fuse accomplishes is disconecting the the power from the fuel pump THATS ALL, it doesnt have magic powers that resets programs. Removing the battery does the same thing as pulling fuses or relays.

QUOTE (stephen_lee @ Aug 21, 2011 - 6:17 PM) *
but pulling relays = no point


Same thing with fuses.


Um. the toyota manual states that removing the efi 15a fuse is the way to clear CEL codes from memory. I can upload if you want to see.

edit: i know it wont help this guy in his situation, but pulling fuses is not the most useless thing ever thought of by humanity or anything. just fyi.

This post has been edited by samir0189: Aug 21, 2011 - 8:31 PM


--------------------
My F/S Thread!

QUOTE
(14:19:21) Daniel: That was a JDM hole in the side of the box too. There was so much JDM trapped inside that box that they couldn't contain it, so they had to put a JDM hole in the box to let the JDM out.

QUOTE
Ferdi says (11:29)
No, it looks like a hooker put her acid vag on your hood. Acid vag = bigger problem than a few dings.
post Aug 21, 2011 - 9:27 PM
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Scosh

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Update:

I changed my alternator( it was garbage), spark plug wires( they had a few rips) and cleaned off the spark plugs. It runs alot better and I have no more misfires. However, I'm still having that struggle in the higher rpms. I'm going to check the timing tomorrow with the light and I'll go from there.
post Aug 21, 2011 - 9:58 PM
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stephen_lee



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i would rather replace the spark plugs than clean them. cheap.

ngk platinum. plain single tip, nothing special lol

glad you made progress:) first things i check for with running weird issues is all the normal tune up stuff.


--------------------
QUOTE
"And, as always, your friendship, help, and dedication to the advancement of Texas Celica dominance is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks bro." -DEATH

1994 GT: V6 swap, 5speed E53 W/ LSD, All Power, now RED
1995 ST: SOLD @273k miles, Auto, all power, CarPC, White
1994 ST: Totaled, 5spd, all power, Red RIP 07/09/09 @ 241,810
1994 Lexus LS400: This is my new DD
post Aug 22, 2011 - 7:24 AM
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hatchy_gt-s



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QUOTE (samir0189 @ Aug 21, 2011 - 9:30 PM) *
QUOTE (hatchy_gt-s @ Aug 21, 2011 - 6:25 PM) *
QUOTE (stephen_lee @ Aug 21, 2011 - 6:14 PM) *
actually this generation of engine DOES same small changes in the fuel map in the ecu, along with idle positions and timingg settings, and shift settings if its an auto. its in the BGB so toyota reccoments tis after work affecting engine VE.

pull the efi fuse in the engine bay. sit 10 sec for obd1 and 10 min for obd2. start car let idle 5min (auto only) drive at moderate throttle position (20-50%) untill 4th gear. relearn is complete. (except fine tune, which your ecu will do for up to 100 starts)


BUT this will def not cause a serious problem... lol


NO that only resets long/short fuel trim not you A/F ratio the only way to change that is with reprograming. Timing is also PROM.

WHY DO YOU PEOPLE THINK FUSES AND RELAYS ARE MAGIC!!! All removing the EFI fuse accomplishes is disconecting the the power from the fuel pump THATS ALL, it doesnt have magic powers that resets programs. Removing the battery does the same thing as pulling fuses or relays.

QUOTE (stephen_lee @ Aug 21, 2011 - 6:17 PM) *
but pulling relays = no point


Same thing with fuses.


Um. the toyota manual states that removing the efi 15a fuse is the way to clear CEL codes from memory. I can upload if you want to see.

edit: i know it wont help this guy in his situation, but pulling fuses is not the most useless thing ever thought of by humanity or anything. just fyi.


Yes because thats what CEL light is for just an annoying light that you clear by pulling fuses... and yes I know you can clear the CEL that way, but you know I guess Im just one of those @$$holes who fixes things the proper way... rolleyes.gif
post Aug 22, 2011 - 7:29 AM
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hatchy_gt-s



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QUOTE (Scosh @ Aug 21, 2011 - 10:27 PM) *
Update:

I changed my alternator( it was garbage), spark plug wires( they had a few rips) and cleaned off the spark plugs. It runs alot better and I have no more misfires. However, I'm still having that struggle in the higher rpms. I'm going to check the timing tomorrow with the light and I'll go from there.


Good to know that helped. If timing isn't your issue I suggest taking another look at your sensors(IAT,EGR,O2) because it sounds like your having troubles with proper fueling.

Stephen_Lee Im sure you know this but to clearify on your post about BGB, that will only help if those sensors and sending units are properly working and thats the main point Im trying to get across and i guess i could have done a better job about it. frown.gif Thats why i try to steer people from just sitting there and pulling fuses and trying to reset programs, its not going to help if the ECU isn't even getting the right signals.

This post has been edited by hatchy_gt-s: Aug 22, 2011 - 7:39 AM
post Aug 22, 2011 - 8:45 AM
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stephen_lee



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QUOTE (hatchy_gt-s @ Aug 22, 2011 - 7:29 AM) *
QUOTE (Scosh @ Aug 21, 2011 - 10:27 PM) *
Update:

I changed my alternator( it was garbage), spark plug wires( they had a few rips) and cleaned off the spark plugs. It runs alot better and I have no more misfires. However, I'm still having that struggle in the higher rpms. I'm going to check the timing tomorrow with the light and I'll go from there.


Good to know that helped. If timing isn't your issue I suggest taking another look at your sensors(IAT,EGR,O2) because it sounds like your having troubles with proper fueling.

Stephen_Lee Im sure you know this but to clearify on your post about BGB, that will only help if those sensors and sending units are properly working and thats the main point Im trying to get across and i guess i could have done a better job about it. frown.gif Thats why i try to steer people from just sitting there and pulling fuses and trying to reset programs, its not going to help if the ECU isn't even getting the right signals.


Yeah, I agree with you totally. The point I was making in the first post (I said it at the end of it I believe) is this is the proper way to do it, and yes it helps but only AFTER certain types of work has been done to the engine. In his case I don't believe it would've helped.


--------------------
QUOTE
"And, as always, your friendship, help, and dedication to the advancement of Texas Celica dominance is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks bro." -DEATH

1994 GT: V6 swap, 5speed E53 W/ LSD, All Power, now RED
1995 ST: SOLD @273k miles, Auto, all power, CarPC, White
1994 ST: Totaled, 5spd, all power, Red RIP 07/09/09 @ 241,810
1994 Lexus LS400: This is my new DD
post Aug 27, 2011 - 3:55 PM
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Scosh

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UPDATE:

I have found my problem! It was my TPS sensor. I unplugged it and it runs like it should, plug it back in and back to crappy. Soo is there anyone out there willing to sell me a TPS sensor for cheap? Ive found one on ebay for $34 but Im trying to look for one cheaper biggrin.gif

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