Water meth injection? Options

[bdog_v]

Hi guys I have come across a new idea. I saw this product on powerblock tv this weekend and was wondering if anyone has used this product or any thoughts. It is at this website www.snowperformance.net no I am not associated with them.. It is a water methanol injection system that cools things down to increase horsepower and you can use it to improve mileage.

-Now I know on a turbo car this would be very helpful or a high compression motor. **But has anyone thought of putting this on a stock 94 celica GT like I have to increase mileage and a little power boost.

-In order to get the maximum benefit from this product the timing must be raised. Now I don't know if simply raising the timing on the distributor would do it as I am thinking the computer would lower it back down or adjust it in a way that would limit the benefits of the water injection system.

-So on the 94 celica what stand alone type system would I need to adjust the timing so it was raised throughout the powerband to take advantage of the water meth mixture? You turbocharge guys must use something to control the timing with the boost, would something like that work with what I am thinking of????


-'Someday I may put a turbo on and this kit would only help that system make even more power so I am thinking of getting it today to boost mileage and power but If I can't find a way to *tune it then there is no point to trying so any ideas!!
Thanks,

[Bitter]

OMG No, we've never heard of technology that's been around since World War II!

[mandrek]

i had done allot of research on water, water/meth, injection a wile back....

unfortunately most of what you are hoping to get from this is not going to happen with out ALLOT of tuning. and the gains will minimal at best.. considering it would be on a stock setup. the benefit of a water, water/meth setup these days on a DD car is lost due to the fact that the system is going to have to be filled as much as you fill up in gas (if not more) (assuming its an 'always on' set up you would need to employ for this type of application), and the same benefits (ability to use advanced ignition timing, increased boost on turbo cars, higher compresion on NA cars..) all can come from a simple upgrade to running the car on E85.. add to the fact that the switch to E85 also removes all of the added mess and complexity associated water, water/meth injection ( not to mention the added weight from the second tank.)

can you make it work on a "stock" motor?. sure.. but it give as much as it takes? nope.. not on a non high-comp N/A, or boosted application..

then there is the issue of the quality of the water, or the the water/meth mixture. you can buy the snow-performance mixture but at a premium.. or you can mix it your self.. (not ideal, as to get the most consistency you would need to mix it in LARGE batches.)

and for control. i would have to say at a MINIMUM, a good piggy back unit like the e-manage Ultimate, or similar.. (so there is one more aspect that would make it not a good idea for a "stock" motor.)


don't get me wrong, i am not trying to shoot this down as an option.. just being a realist on its useful application on an unmodified US spec celi.

[bdog_v]

THANKS FOR your reply! I have searched this site and have not had any luck finding a thread on piggyback systems people use on these vehicles and info about each one like what the differences are between each system in

say:
- options available,
- difficulty to use and learn,
-support for troubleshooting
-Cost

. Is there thread on here that covers these systems or does someone have experience with a variety of them who could recommend one?

I am more interested in learning about these piggyback systems if that is the correct term, than the water meth kit which I did find some turbo'ed celicas on here are using with great success for turbo cars. Not so sure it would be cost efficient on a N/A.

Thanks,

[mandrek]

THANKS FOR your reply! I have searched this site and have not had any luck finding a thread on piggyback systems people use on these vehicles and info about each one like what the differences are between each system in

say:
- options available,
- difficulty to use and learn,
-support for troubleshooting
-Cost

. Is there thread on here that covers these systems or does someone have experience with a variety of them who could recommend one?

I am more interested in learning about these piggyback systems if that is the correct term, than the water meth kit which I did find some turbo'ed celicas on here are using with great success for turbo cars. Not so sure it would be cost efficient on a N/A.

Thanks,

1.well.. most who do light modding/tuning go with the simple and cheap SAFC-II.. but from what i here is that it is good for lightly modifying fuel trim. but not that powerful.
2..i have seen others go with the Greddy E-manage, or the more powerful E-manage ultimate. the list of capabilities of these two is quite large, so a simple google search will give far more info than what i cold post, in a snap.
3...there is also the extremley cheap but not so user friendly (unless you are familiar with electronics and can read a schematic, or pay to have it assembled for you) MegaSqurt offerings.. with the new MS3 being the most flexible and powerful of what they offer. (personaly i am thinking of using one of there boxes, like the MS2 to do data logging only)

those are the 3 that i see the most and can think of up-off the top of my head, but there are SOOOOOO many more out there,, the key is to know WHAT you want to do with it, and what your budget will allow.. figure this out first and then look to see if you can find one that will work for you.. hell i even know of a tuner in the Philippines that has used a Honda S300 to control a modified 7a/4a and used the second V-tec fuel map to allow to switch to a second map for use with E85/race gas.

[Bitter]

I have a SAFC2 black for sale, $100 shipped. I think I even have some of the original directions with it.

[bdog_v]

Hi guys thanks for all the responses. I've been searching the net for more info and even though I have gone to the main site for Greddy and Safc I can't find specifics on how they work. Does anyone have a link for directions to these specifically related to the timing. Basically all I want to be able to do for now is have control of the timing and fuel. As far as the timing goes I'd like to make sure if I raise it, the computer does not retard the timing unless I want it to.

I'd like to be able to :

-See when the computer is receiving knock counts so I'd know if it was too far advanced.


-I'd also like to know how many degrees the ecu retards the timing when it senses knock from the sensor.


-Next I'd like to be able to adjust the amount it retards the timing and turn the retard function off if I want to.


*The reason I would like to do this is I have used the Winaldi program with my laptop to monitor an 89 GM TBI system I installed onto an old 70's international scout, With this program I can monitor knock counts and see what my ecu is reading from all the sensors. Then I can burn new chips using Moates products to create different timing settings. I can turn the knock retard function down or off if I want. This has helped me to greatly increase my fuel mileage through raising timing at cruise and would like to tinker with this on the celica but I don't know what piggyback or programs would allow me to do this?

Thanks guys!!!