Jazon's 3rd Gen 3sgte swap Options

[Jazon256]

Finally putting together a project thread for my 3s swap! Got my Celica eight years ago when I was 18, fell in love with it, and have been frequenting this forum and dreaming of this swap for nearly just as long.

Finally bit the bullet last year in September and ordered a '97 GT4 half cut off of ebay (from Keith Tau at RPM Garage, whom I completely recommend, great transaction). It shipped sea freight from Japan and because I live in Anchorage, Alaska, took nearly 6 weeks to get here. But I didn't care, figured I had all winter to work on it.

And... now it's spring, just about summer. Yeah, work, house stuff, yada yada. Finally started the project about two weeks ago and think I'm making pretty good progress. Both engines out, transaxels separated, and engines harnesses sent off to Dr. Tweak. Not sure how much longer I have to go on the swap, but I'm motivated to get it done as soon as possible, summer's only so long here!

Next up I'll be changing out the timing belt / water pump and related components, then clutch, then I should be ready to drop the 3s in as soon as I get the harness back! :) Pics below with more info.




The normal state of the car, or in other words, dirty as hell. This pic's from driving through Canada down to California for a developer conference.




The whole thing after I got the plastic wrap off of it. It's basically the front clip stacked on top of the rear clip. So, in theory, it has everything for the whole AWD swap, though I'm no where near insane enough to attempt it. Yet...




After my father and I got it jacked up, slid out the rear clip, and removed all the "other stuff" (old seat cushions used as padding, some subaru looking hood to protect the top, etc). With battery, oil, and fuel, it even runs in this condition. Keith provided a video of start up and compression checks (you can see it start up here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXp3FUPR2rw)




Lifting the 5SFE out. Took me about 3 days total effort to remove everything and get it ready to lift, being pretty careful and meticulous about everything (I've done some automotive stuff in the past, but nothing like this before).




Just like this image for the lighting effect :)




Where the 5s will stay until I figure out what to do with it. Also, it's being supported by my ex-girlfriend's ballet bar, which I think is pretty funny.




The obligatory standing in the engine bay pic, I was pretty damn happy to have it out!




5s out of the Celica with the gt4 front clip in the background, just about to get started on it.




The 3s, all disconnected and ready to lift!




3s is out, this one took me about 2 days of total effort having just done the 5s. Also took a few different approaches, like removing the lower sub frame supporting the steering and suspension stuff, which was a bit of a pain but made everything else go much smoother.




The 3s all ready to be separated from the awd transaxel and have the engine harness removed.


I'll keep this thread updated, and welcome any comments or questions, god knows I'll probably have my fair share of questions for the community once I start getting the 3s all hooked up!

[richee3]

Congrats on the purchase! Keep up the good progress

[Box]

Awesome, good luck to you. Should be done before you know it!

[kurt95gt]

Looks like your off to a great start
Good luck wiyh the build

[diegohiga]

Very nice right now im.in the.same.process but there is something i still dont.understand. why you have to send the harness to get.modified when you swap to 3s? Becaise it came cut and messed up? Need new plugs? Extend it?
I know this.anwser might be in the engine or swap section but can.someone.explain this?

[rave2n]

Very nice right now im.in the.same.process but there is something i still dont.understand. why you have to send the harness to get.modified when you swap to 3s? Becaise it came cut and messed up? Need new plugs? Extend it?
I know this.anwser might be in the engine or swap section but can.someone.explain this?

I believe Bsamps has a complete wiring walk through.

The extension of the harness is for the ECU connection which is reversed based on RHD vs. LHD.

Then you have IC relay wirings, and a few other wires to move around. He gives a complete walk in his thread from 5s to 3s.

If you have previous wiring knowledge, I can't imagine it being to difficult. I potentially will be doing mine soon, following the same guide. I was going to send it off, but I cannot justify the expenditure with my ability. Though I respect their work.

Swap is looking good, keep up the work!

This post has been edited by rave2n: Apr 23, 2012 - 11:34 AM

[Jazon256]

Very nice right now im.in the.same.process but there is something i still dont.understand. why you have to send the harness to get.modified when you swap to 3s? Becaise it came cut and messed up? Need new plugs? Extend it?
I know this.anwser might be in the engine or swap section but can.someone.explain this?

Yeah, I was very tempted to tackle it myself. Part of my reluctance was that I have a few friends who have done other engine swaps and have run into the worst electrical nightmares imaginable, they can be extremely difficult to diagnose. But, wiring for a 5sfe car with 3rd gen 3sgte engine does appear to be simpler than a lot of other conversions.

Honestly though, it was actually timing that made me go this route. While the harness is being converted, I'll be doing the timing belt, clutch and all that stuff (and catch up on work, which I've been ignoring a bit) then it'll hopefully get here not too long after I'm ready to drop the 3s in.

[azian_advanced]

wow. it's been a while since anyone has done the Tweak pose.

[Jazon256]

wow. it's been a while since anyone has done the Tweak pose.

Heh, well, I was pretty excited to have it out, and I don't think it compares with Tweak's infamous mad scientist pose :)

[Jazon256]

Happy to report I've made quite a bit of progress in the last couple weeks and just last night finished putting everything engine side together and got it started! Now the only issue I think is figuring out how to wire in the ST205's stock intercooler pump. But before I get into that, some more pics:



Not sure if there's a better way to prevent the engine from turning while removing the flywheel, but this worked well enough.




Timing belt, water pump, tensioner and both idler pulleys replaced. Gotta say, I like the tensioner setup on this engine much more than the 5sfe. But, I had to remove the cam gears to remove the cover behind them in order to remove the water pump assembly, which, unless I was missing something, seemed like an odd design.




Flywheel side of the clutch I had locally custom made, sized for the 3sgte engine with S54 spline. This side is ceramic, with kevlar on the other side (same as I had with the 5sfe when I replaced it many years ago, really liked the feel of it).




Transaxel mounted onto the engine, ready to drop in!




Engine in place!




Engine all hooked up, ready to start, but sans intercooler for the moment. Only issue I ran into before getting ready to try starting was that when adding in coolant, it started to leak out the back side of the engine bay. After feeling around a bit, found out it was the hoses going to and from the heater core. Either the gt4's lines are slightly smaller, or, probably more likely, the old ones were so worn they were loose enough to leak (the car does have 180,000 miles on it).

But after I took care of that by swapping the hoses from the gt4 clip, I turned it over and it started right up! But, it throws a check engine light, which I expected because of no coolant in the intercooler nor a pump hooked up.

So, the big question now, can anyone who swapped a 3rd gen 3sgte and kept the stock intercooler system tell me how I'm supposed to wire the pump up? I posted a question for it here: http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=83630

[placham]

Any other pictures of the rear clip?

[Jazon256]

Any other pictures of the rear clip?

Well, at the moment it's in my garage with plywood over it serving as a table to try to keep all the miscellaneous parts organized. But I know I have photos from the original ebay ad somewhere, I'll post those when I find them. Let me know if there's something specific you're looking for.

[Jazon256]

So I got the intercooler pump issue taken care of, here's some pics of the wiring madness that ensued:





Had to run wires from where the fuse box is in the engine bay all the way to the ECU, and re-pin each of the 4 connections going to the ECU. Think there might have been a miscommunication between Tweak and I, we talked about the IC pump when I first sent him the harnesses, but this would have been much easier had the wires still been at the EA1 chassis plug like on the original 3sgte harness. Don't know for certain, but I think I might have been better off extending the harness and dealing with the clutch start cancel myself since nothing was done regarding the IC Pump. Still respect Tweak's work of course, and I'm sure it's well worth it in more complex situations, like going from Automatic to Manual (I've heard that's pretty complex on the ECU end). Also got a few tips from them on reading the IC Pump wiring diagram, so that was definitely appreciated.

But anyways, I feel pretty knowledgable now about the IC Pump wiring, so if anyone needs any help with it, feel free to let me know.

Also wanted to post a pic of installing the Denso Supra TT fuel pump, it's a beast compared to the old one! Thought I remember reading somewhere it was a drop in replacement. Can't say this one was, but with a bit of bracket bending and some zip ties and other measures to keep it solid, it's plenty secure and I definitely have all the fuel flow at the pump I'll ever need.



With that, I got it up and running and drivable, but ran into one last issue, engine bogged down and backfired like mad around 3500 rpm and 12 psi of boost. Stumped me for a bit, especially since there seemed to be lots of things that can cause it from what I've read around here. But for me ended up it was just the spark plugs. Old ones were super worn, had a gap of nearly .060, replaced those with NGK bkr7e's gapped at .028 and it runs awesome now! So I think I can officially say engine swap complete!

Far from done with the car of course though, still trying to figure out what I want to do for exhaust. Also some visual stuff I'm still figuring out. Using the stock hood at the moment, which contrary to popular belief, I can say for certain fits just fine over the 3rd gen 3sgte with stock top mount W2A intercooler. It is snug, enough so that one of the black plastic things holding the hood padding in place rubbed off a bit of the black on the intercooler (put some tape over it and it's fine now) but it's certainly not so tight that the hood bends or is strained.

Would still like to get the gt4 hood on there for better cooling though, just waiting to get the gt4 bumper and parts in. But regardless, very happy to finally be driving it around regularly now!

[placham]

MKiV pump is a MF to install, its almost twice the size of stocker.

Curious to see pics of floor pan, read that its different than USDM, but studying pics I come across its seems that just spare tire well is moved over, difference is under neath with mounting.