How much is too much?, Hp wise Options

[UVZ164]

I was thinking the other day, how much Hp is too much for a light fwd like a 6gc?
I see alot of swaps where 3sgte's are putting over 300 horses to the ground, but are there more negatives than positives?
Does it take the nimble feel out of it having so much grunt going to the tyres they just spin or pull you around with the torque steer?

Now im not talking gt4's here as they have the awd just the fwd variant.

A perfect example of this I have seen first hand. 2 civics exact same everything except one strapped a turbo on(tuned racecars). I think it was the B18C VTEC motor. There were two very good drivers and each had a go in both cars around a local race track here. Both of them stepped out of the cars with a better time in the NA car than in the turbo and said it felt much better to drive and it showed in their times(except on the straight where the turbo monsters the NA).
Now obviously if your going drag racing then the 3sgte or high Hp will be the way to go.

But for normal street driving or circuit driving does the celica more suit an engine like the beams where for street driving its very smooth and enough to get around town and when you hit the high rpm band on the track the power delivery is still very smooth but very precise to help bring out the best in the rest of the car like the nimble handling. Not have a Jeremy Clarkson MORE POWER!!!!!!!!!! moment.

I would like to hear from people that have experienced this difference first hand.

Cheers,

Reece

[NYp8tBaller07]

I think around 250hp is what you want to keep good traction and handling. Anything more than that and you start to have more cons.

[BonzaiCelica]

I myself have a beams motor and its good fun. nothing like wow factor but I like it because its all n/a power. Something I would prefer is a 200whp beams motor. So that would be another 30 hp into the motor. Like he said ^^^ a stock 3rd 3sgte with a s54 transmission with helical lsd and 215/45R17 tires and a 2.75 inch exhaust with a speed limiter cut is what would be just perfect.

Although I myself have never driven a stock 3rd gen swap into a fwd celica. So I can't say much there.

[malpaso]

I remember having just 200hp and had feeling it spins even on third gear (with 205 wide tires and slightly wet road). Driving in in the winter here was real challenge - especially take off from side road on crossroads where are no traffic lights. What has helped a bit was new suspension, sway bars etc... so w/o any electronics like traction control and with wide tires (225 perhaps) I can imagine having another 100hp max (of course with that upgraded suspension as well). So 300HP is my answer but never had chance to try or confirm.

This post has been edited by malpaso: Jun 20, 2012 - 6:30 AM

[delusionz]

I also 205 wide tyres and 4 wheel spinnin, problem clearing BC coilover suspension in the rear, need spacers or less offset

[jimmykay]

Having just stepped from about 130 hp to about 270 hp, I can say that the number is definitely above 200 hp. I haven't really pushed the new car yet, but I have a feeling that I may be nearing that sweet spot. I think I agree with malpaso, 300 hp is probably about the top end of usable hp for FWD cars.

[NYp8tBaller07]

That's where you look for a gt4 lol

[Smaay]

i made 545 HP in my 7th gen which is lighter than the 6th gen. I used an Apexi AVC-R which is a gear specific boost controller. in the low gears like 1st and 2nd, i only push about 12-15psi which was about 300HP and i had no issues. in the higher gears i had full boost and could roll into the gas and hold traction. it was a beast at full power. faster than my 700HP supra.

[delusionz]

i made 545 HP in my 7th gen which is lighter than the 6th gen. I used an Apexi AVC-R which is a gear specific boost controller. in the low gears like 1st and 2nd, i only push about 12-15psi which was about 300HP and i had no issues. in the higher gears i had full boost and could roll into the gas and hold traction. it was a beast at full power. faster than my 700HP supra.

your turbo kick in at 8000?

[UVZ164]

Ok so im gonna go out on a limb and try to make some sort of conclusion based on the above.
For no suspension mods around 200 200
For suspension mods(coils, sways, strut bars, LSD) 200-270 or a bit more

Or what Smaay suggested above having a gear specific boost controller

[richee3]

Back in the good ol' days when 6gc chat was working, I asked Death and Jim, both with 3S-GTE's and loads of power, if they had horrendous understeer. They both replid no, their Celica could handle it just fine. One of them mention wheel hop but said it wasn't terrible and knew how to remedy the issue.

I would think that 300 hp with FWD would lead to disaster but I've been told just the opposite. I know my BEAMS on stock suspension never even dreamed of having issues and we don't even have high performance tires on the car. 200hp is very reasonable but the 3S-GTE is a whole different beast.