Sealing Oil Pan Red Permatex Vs. Ultra Grey Options

[rave2n]

Just curious for some insight before I seal these oil pans this evening.

I've purchased high temp red permatex for the oil pans, but I've been reading around to use the Ultra Grey. No one seems to give a good reason behind such, so I figured I'd inquire with you folks.

Lets here some reasoning!

Please don't say use Toyota FIPG or whatever it is.

[Tigawoods]

Use Toyota FIPG


sorry. had to

[rave2n]

Use Toyota FIPG


sorry. had to

After further impatient researching it would appear I should have purchased grey...

This post has been edited by rave2n: Aug 7, 2012 - 9:22 AM

[Batman722]

Use Toyota FIPG


sorry. had to

[Special_Edy]

Gray is for high torque applications, red is for high temp, black is for maximum oil resistance, and blue is "sensor safe" I believe. Always buy black or gray, you cant go wrong with either.

Scrub scrub scrub and get every molecule of oil of the gasket mating surfaces. Apply a thin film of RTV/FIPG to the pan and spread it evenly with your finger. Attach the pan and lightly torque it. Let it sit for 12-24 hours then torque the bolts the rest of the way down to specification.

I used black RTV on mine, 6000 miles later no leaks.

This post has been edited by Special_Edy: Aug 7, 2012 - 9:36 AM

[rave2n]

Gray is for high torque applications, red is for high temp, black is for maximum oil resistance, and blue is "sensor safe" I believe. Always buy black or gray, you cant go wrong with either.

Scrub scrub scrub and get every molecule of oil of the gasket mating surfaces. Apply a thin film of RTV/FIPG to the pan and spread it evenly with your finger. Attach the pan and lightly torque it. Let it sit for 12-24 hours then torque the bolts the rest of the way down to specification.

I used black RTV on mine, 6000 miles later no leaks.

Yea I think i'm going to return these reds, and get grey. It had gray on it before, and not a single leak. Though it appears they went crazy with it. Thankfully it was cured well and didn't appear to get into anything causing damage.

Not sure about that spreading with the finger concept, but I'll follow whatever is on the tube. The curing process you mentioned sounds spot on.

Darn you FIPG lovers, we could debate how its identical product repackaged with dye, but we won't..not here =)

[Special_Edy]

The going crazy with it is where the finger method comes in. Lay a fat bead of rtv and smooth it over the entire gasket surface. I guess Ive always used my finger to spread it and never thought twice about it till now.

Yeah and gray is good stuff. I usually use gray in places under alot of stress, like bearing caps or the rear main seal. I usually use black for valve covers and oilpans because its supposed to hold up to oil the best, but Im certain that both types meet and exceed the requirements for an oil pan. Cant spend too much time overanalyzing things.

[rave2n]

The going crazy with it is where the finger method comes in. Lay a fat bead of rtv and smooth it over the entire gasket surface. I guess Ive always used my finger to spread it and never thought twice about it till now.

Yeah and gray is good stuff. I usually use gray in places under alot of stress, like bearing caps or the rear main seal. I usually use black for valve covers and oilpans because its supposed to hold up to oil the best, but Im certain that both types meet and exceed the requirements for an oil pan. Cant spend too much time overanalyzing things.

Yea in the end, I used the black...considering it was the same price as grey, and has better oil resistance...figured why the heck not really.

I did end up using my finger to spread it, just wasn't comfortable with the dropping a bead concept. I wanted 100% sure all surfaces got the goo =P

This post has been edited by rave2n: Aug 7, 2012 - 3:57 PM

[Smaay]

Gray is for high torque applications, red is for high temp, black is for maximum oil resistance, and blue is "sensor safe" I believe. Always buy black or gray, you cant go wrong with either.

Scrub scrub scrub and get every molecule of oil of the gasket mating surfaces. Apply a thin film of RTV/FIPG to the pan and spread it evenly with your finger. Attach the pan and lightly torque it. Let it sit for 12-24 hours then torque the bolts the rest of the way down to specification.

I used black RTV on mine, 6000 miles later no leaks.

where did you get that procedure? you should torque to spec when using FIPG. if you dont have it torqued right and the FIPG cures, then you tighten it more, its going to leak.

[rave2n]

Gray is for high torque applications, red is for high temp, black is for maximum oil resistance, and blue is "sensor safe" I believe. Always buy black or gray, you cant go wrong with either.

Scrub scrub scrub and get every molecule of oil of the gasket mating surfaces. Apply a thin film of RTV/FIPG to the pan and spread it evenly with your finger. Attach the pan and lightly torque it. Let it sit for 12-24 hours then torque the bolts the rest of the way down to specification.

I used black RTV on mine, 6000 miles later no leaks.

where did you get that procedure? you should torque to spec when using FIPG. if you dont have it torqued right and the FIPG cures, then you tighten it more, its going to leak.

Guess I better get back outside with my torque wrench...man I thought I was done for the night..took a shower and everything...

Amazinly enough, they were all within pretty good range of the spec lbs. Guess I have a good hand...A few needed an adjustment, but less the 2 ft lbs. - These guys don't take alot either...smaller bolts 9 ft lbs, bigger ones 15 ft lbs.

This post has been edited by rave2n: Aug 7, 2012 - 4:50 PM

[trdproven]

Gray is for high torque applications, red is for high temp, black is for maximum oil resistance, and blue is "sensor safe" I believe. Always buy black or gray, you cant go wrong with either.

Scrub scrub scrub and get every molecule of oil of the gasket mating surfaces. Apply a thin film of RTV/FIPG to the pan and spread it evenly with your finger. Attach the pan and lightly torque it. Let it sit for 12-24 hours then torque the bolts the rest of the way down to specification.

I used black RTV on mine, 6000 miles later no leaks.

where did you get that procedure? you should torque to spec when using FIPG. if you dont have it torqued right and the FIPG cures, then you tighten it more, its going to leak.

i was just about to say the same thing, you have to torque it to spec right away so that when it cures, its in its final form (position). if you dont torque it right away, whatever shape it is in when it cures, wont mate evenly and have gaps, holes, and eventually leak.

I think Edy was in the idea, that let it dry first so that it can create a cured gasket first, but the goal is to get it to form first by torqing it, thus Toyota's form in place gasket name.

This post has been edited by trdproven: Aug 7, 2012 - 5:15 PM

[Galcobar]

6. INSTALL OIL PAN
(a) Remove any old packing (FIPG) material and be
careful not to drop any oil on the contact surfaces of
the oil pan and cylinder block.
• Using a razor blade and gasket scraper, remove all
the old packing (FIPG) material from the gasket
surfaces and sealing groove.
• Thoroughly clean all components to remove all
the loose material.
• Using a non–residue solvent, clean both sealing
surfaces.
NOTICE: Do not use a solvent which will affect the
painted surfaces.
(b) Apply seal packing to the oil pan as shown in the
illustration.
Seal packing: Part No.08826–00080 or equivalent
• Install a nozzle that has been cut to a 3 – 5 mm
(0.12 – 0.20 in.) opening.
HINT: Avoid applying an excessive amount to the surface.
Be particularly careful near oil passages.
• Parts must be assembled within 5 minutes of application.
Otherwise the material must be removed and reapplied.
• Immediately remove nozzle from the tube and reinstall cap.
© Install the oil pan with the seventeen bolts and four
nuts.
Torque: 5.4 N–m (55 kgf–cm, 48 in.–lbf)
(d) Install the dipstick.

[njccmd2002]

Use Toyota FIPG


sorry. had to

[rave2n]

Guess we'll find out if I screwed the pooch in a couple months when I drop it in...

That must be directions for another engine Galcobar.

On the 3sgte there is certainly not 16 bolts, or 4 nuts. Or 48 in. lbf required.

If I recall correctly there is 8 smaller bolts, 4 larger ones, about 6 allen head bolts, and 2 nuts. Oh yea, and 2 hidden smaller bolts near the flywheel side.

Also the smaller bolts require 9 ft lbs, or 109 in. lbf, larger bolts takes 15 ft lbs or 180 in. lbf

Though I did clean everything throughly, with non residue cleaners, scrapped and cleaned out the grooves. I didn't bead it. Well I did a 5mm bead then spread it with my finger, but left some space from the oil passages near the pump to not clog those puppies.

This post has been edited by rave2n: Aug 8, 2012 - 6:43 AM

[Galcobar]

Instructions are from the BGB for the second-gen 3SGTE.

[rave2n]

Instructions are from the BGB for the second-gen 3SGTE.

Ah I see, I'm on a 3rd. Thanks for the input though. Yea my BGB has quite different instructions.