3SGE vs 5SFE, Which is better? Options

[jackkasper]

I had an 86 GTS with the 3SGE engine and my son has a 96 Vert with the 5SFE. I want to say that the older one had 135 HP as does the newer one. Can anyone give me an informed description about whether the technology of the late engine is better? If you were going to replace the motor which one would you choose?

[zfjohnson07]

3sge is way way better than the 5sfe! the 3sge you already get more horesepower of course, and then you can turbo it. the 5sfe is well, the gt engine, and personally i would never turbo it, like everyone else says i would brather do a swap and put a 3sge in it. go to the engine and maintenance thread, and look at the read this stickies at the top, they have more information than what i am giving you as well. plus if you hafe a 5sfe, its easy to put the 3sge since they have the same mounts if im not mistaken

[czwalga]

3sge is way way better than the 5sfe! the 3sge you already get more horesepower of course, and then you can turbo it. the 5sfe is well, the gt engine, and personally i would never turbo it, like everyone else says i would brather do a swap and put a 3sge in it. go to the engine and maintenance thread, and look at the read this stickies at the top, they have more information than what i am giving you as well. plus if you hafe a 5sfe, its easy to put the 3sge since they have the same mounts if im not mistaken

Not a good idea to turbo a 3sge. The 5sfe is a better option even though neither would be the best. 3sge has a high compression ratio.

[Smaay]

both of you guys are dead wrong.

The 5S-FE is a much better engine that the 3S-FE. it is newer technology, has a longer stroke making more torque and it is very boost friendly.

the 3S-FE may have high compression but i doubt it higher than a 2ZZ and we boost those all day long. its all in the tuning.

[czwalga]

both of you guys are dead wrong.

The 5S-FE is a much better engine that the 3S-FE. it is newer technology, has a longer stroke making more torque and it is very boost friendly.

the 3S-FE may have high compression but i doubt it higher than a 2ZZ and we boost those all day long. its all in the tuning.

Tell that new technology to theold pushrod in my rx7. Besides what's the new technology in the 5sfe??? It's about as basic as an engine can get. Hell even my crappy 3sge has variable intake runners, which the 5sfe has nothing like it.



It's not 'all in the tuning', it's all in elminating denotation which tuning has it's part in but only a part. Sure you could do it, you may even get away it with for a while... it's still a ****ty option if you're planning on going turbo. All it takes is some ****ty gas. I'd rather run a higher boost 3sgte, than a lower boost 3sge.

This post has been edited by czwalga: Aug 27, 2012 - 9:46 AM

[Xander_X]

People are getting confused here ... I'm seeing 3S-FE and 3S-GE. We need to first get straight which engine we're talking about. If what jackkasper is saying is correct, his 86 GT-S had a 3S-GE, which coincides correctly, at least what I have read came in the 4th gen North America GT-S.

The technology in the newer 5SFE is just that, newer technology. Not by much but newer none the less. Doesn't make it better. I think, as a matter of opinion, we could go back and forth all day long as to whether that generation of the 3SGE or the 6gc version of the 5SFE are better. Would the 5S be better suited for boost do to it's engineering? I believe so. But stock for stock, I wouldn't know which one to pic. Now if we went with a newer generation 3SGE, like the ones in the 6gc or the final gen, the BEAMS ... I would go with the 3SGE IMHO

[czwalga]

People are getting confused here ... I'm seeing 3S-FE and 3S-GE. We need to first get straight which engine we're talking about. If what jackkasper is saying is correct, his 86 GT-S had a 3S-GE, which coincides correctly, at least what I have read came in the 4th gen North America GT-S.

The technology in the newer 5SFE is just that, newer technology. Not by much but newer none the less. Doesn't make it better. I think, as a matter of opinion, we could go back and forth all day long as to whether that generation of the 3SGE or the 6gc version of the 5SFE are better. Would the 5S be better suited for boost do to it's engineering? I believe so. But stock for stock, I wouldn't know which one to pic. Now if we went with a newer generation 3SGE, like the ones in the 6gc or the final gen, the BEAMS ... I would go with the 3SGE IMHO

Good point. Really matters what years. I was thinking he had a gen 2 3sge. Not sure what the c/r etc are on the 1st gens.

This post has been edited by czwalga: Aug 27, 2012 - 10:24 AM

[richee3]

To answer the OP's question directly, the 3S-GE vs. 5S-FE debate really comes down to personal preference. The 5S is an extremely reliable, cheap platform. The 3S-GE has more power for the the 3rd and 4th generation (177, 197 hp) but both come with slight difficulty obtaining parts. Not bad, but it's not as easy as walking into Autozone and saying "I need ________." The 3rd generation 3S-GE is a very easy, feasible swap if your 5S locks up. The cost is comparable to a 5S. The BEAMS (197 hp) costs quite a bit more, offers a little more power, but is a swap mostly done just to say you have it.

The 3S engines are reliable engines and make decent power stock. If you're looking for more power for not a lot more money, the 3rd gen 3S is a good choice. The BEAMS is an uncommon engine, quite a bit of fun, worth the cost to some but not others. The 5S is difficult to extract any power without boost but is bulletproof.

[BonzaiCelica]

smaay you do know were comparing the 3sfe found in ss-I celica's when the TITLE CLEARLY STATES 3SGE vs 5SFE

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Aug 30, 2012 - 7:01 PM

[trdproven]

3sge is way way better than the 5sfe! the 3sge you already get more horesepower of course, and then you can turbo it. the 5sfe is well, the gt engine, and personally i would never turbo it, like everyone else says i would brather do a swap and put a 3sge in it. go to the engine and maintenance thread, and look at the read this stickies at the top, they have more information than what i am giving you as well. plus if you hafe a 5sfe, its easy to put the 3sge since they have the same mounts if im not mistaken

not necessarily, it depends what kind of 3sge cus those high compression ones need pistons still and some internal work while a good late model 5sfe in condition is just bolt on with its compression ratio. but one for one 3sge is supposed to have a better head while the 5sfe has a better block.

3sge is way way better than the 5sfe! the 3sge you already get more horesepower of course, and then you can turbo it. the 5sfe is well, the gt engine, and personally i would never turbo it, like everyone else says i would brather do a swap and put a 3sge in it. go to the engine and maintenance thread, and look at the read this stickies at the top, they have more information than what i am giving you as well. plus if you hafe a 5sfe, its easy to put the 3sge since they have the same mounts if im not mistaken

Not a good idea to turbo a 3sge. The 5sfe is a better option even though neither would be the best. 3sge has a high compression ratio.

I kinda agree with this with what ive been saying. it would cost more money to buy a 3sgte, rebuild it, and drop it in labor paid or not. While a good 5sfe is just bolt on application "for the most part or if you get like the tubes made already". Generally the rule is if your power visions are ~300hp or less=5sfe if its 300hp or more=3sgte. however a 3sge is a tough call cus you still got to do internal work, I would just turbo the 5s or just swap 3sgte.

both of you guys are dead wrong.

The 5S-FE is a much better engine that the 3S-FE. it is newer technology, has a longer stroke making more torque and it is very boost friendly.

the 3S-FE may have high compression but i doubt it higher than a 2ZZ and we boost those all day long. its all in the tuning.

OP mentioned 3sge but then again idk both motors existed during that time for the celica. but then again OP mentioned he had a 86 GTS, so I think it was intended for the 1st gen 3sge.

smaay you do know were comparing the 3sfe found in ss-I celica's when the TITLE CLEARLY STATES 3SGE vs 5SFE

i think thats just a misread on his part.

This post has been edited by trdproven: Aug 31, 2012 - 12:05 AM

[delusionz]

Both are f*ckin sh*t.

Any chance of getting a newer 3sge? the one in question here Gen1 3SGE from an ST162 is ancient and would require a full rebuild, machining, headwork+ecu/tune to be anygood

At that cost, you may aswell look at the best option right from the start - Gen4 ST215 3SGTE block&intake manifold, forged 3S pistons, forged 3S rods, Gen3 ST205 3SGTE head (why? C.o.P is rubbish), ECU & tune

All depends on what the goals are with the motor, for a drop-in and be done with it swap a 16 year old 5sfe will probably be better than a tired old 26 year old 3sge...

[Smaay]

Both are f*ckin sh*t.

Any chance of getting a newer 3sge? the one in question here Gen1 3SGE from an ST162 is ancient and would require a full rebuild, machining, headwork+ecu/tune to be anygood

At that cost, you may aswell look at the best option right from the start - Gen4 ST215 3SGTE block&intake manifold, forged 3S pistons, forged 3S rods, Gen3 ST205 3SGTE head (why? C.o.P is rubbish), ECU & tune

All depends on what the goals are with the motor, for a drop-in and be done with it swap a 16 year old 5sfe will probably be better than a tired old 26 year old 3sge...

i like this response

[Box]

^What about now when I say to just get a 1MZ-FE?