Extra radiator Options

[yellowchinaman]

Can anyone think of a down side of adding an extra smaller radiator to work in conjunction with the stock radiator for extra cooling? BMW's are doing this for the 1M.

[Nial]

I have been reading your stuff over on the DC I think it was.

The only problem I can forsee is bleeding it.

Another option might be to add a small oil cooler type radiator on the turbo water return line as that will be very hot.

The trouble with cooling the water too much is that it will just close the thermostat and restrict flow and could in extreme conditions lead to thermal shock which I guess might be unlikely, but do remember datajon mentioning something along those lines and as he builds race engines for a living I guess he knows what he is talking about.

If you look on the OC for a thread of mine titled something like "How to improve the cooling system" there is alot of detail in there and some ideas from DJ about what he would do to improve cooling. The addition of another radiator to the main system never came up....if the main radiator is up to the job then I dont see the point. Cool the water too much and as I said the thermostat will just close and you have little advantage.

[yellowchinaman]

Nial you're like magicman. I can always trust you with a constructive opinion and pick your brains

Well the purpose of improve the cooling mainly helps speed up cooling time not actually lower running temp and even if it does, then it'll only be by a little. When driving, the engine will still heat up as normal when the thermostat is closed no matter how big or better the rad is up until the point it gets hot enough for the thermostat to open which then the cooling begins so I don't see how improve cooling will stop the thermostat from opening.

The 1M has this located in the lower corner vent for additional cooling and this only works when the thermostat is open.


Another thought is to use this to cool the inlet water to the throttle body? Or even be used in conjunction for the charge cooler even for lower inlet temp? Just a thought.
Point is that I think it's easier to add a mini rad than to do the entire swirl shi-bang.

This post has been edited by yellowchinaman: Jan 11, 2013 - 7:56 AM

[Special_Edy]

Increased drag on the waterpump. You wont notice the difference but the water pump will consume more usable horsepower.

I would add it to a different circuit on the cooling system, maybe in line with the oil cooler rather than the radiator. If you think about it your heater-core is a small auxillary radiator, with a blower fan already attached.

If you are looking to cool the engine, you could also upgrade the stock oil cooler. Your oil probably runs anywhere from 200-350 degrees and up to 500 in racing applications.

Bear in mind that the hotter the engine gets, the more powerful it becomes. The fuel atomizes better, but more importantly the oil viscosity thins out with temperature. Measureable gains can be netted by using a thinner viscosity oil or allowing it to get hotter so as to thin it out.

[delusionz]

I was thinking of something exactly like this too, my plan was between my header tank, and my return line to the lower radiator hose

[delusionz]

i agree with the point made about extra cooling outside of the thermostats control,

now that i have a temperature gauge i notice when i turn my heater on, the temperature momentarily rises before settling back down

I guess you gotta remember, the hot water behind the thermostat is what opens it, maybe thats what toyota had in mind when they designed the waterpump and thermostat housing and turbo water return

[yellowchinaman]

Increased drag on the waterpump. You wont notice the difference but the water pump will consume more usable horsepower.

I would add it to a different circuit on the cooling system, maybe in line with the oil cooler rather than the radiator. If you think about it your heater-core is a small auxillary radiator, with a blower fan already attached.

If you are looking to cool the engine, you could also upgrade the stock oil cooler. Your oil probably runs anywhere from 200-350 degrees and up to 500 in racing applications.

Bear in mind that the hotter the engine gets, the more powerful it becomes. The fuel atomizes better, but more importantly the oil viscosity thins out with temperature. Measureable gains can be netted by using a thinner viscosity oil or allowing it to get hotter so as to thin it out.

Oil cooler already sorted. Tapped into thermo sandwich plate and located to front high beam inlet.

So now I'm thinking, is a swirl pot and tank a worth while mod or not because it's only going to speed up cooling when needed.

Maybe instead, use a small rad for improving the charge cooler so that inlet air is cooler? Maybe that is a more worth while mod?

This post has been edited by yellowchinaman: Jan 11, 2013 - 9:15 AM

[Smaay]

there is no point in another cooler. as for the lines to the throttle body. just bypass the throttle body. you dont really need that.

[yellowchinaman]

there is no point in another cooler. as for the lines to the throttle body. just bypass the throttle body. you dont really need that.

Already done that too.

[Nial]

One thing you want to be careful of when adding cooling feature not controlled by the thermostat, is slowing down the rate at which the engine reaches its working temperature, you will increase the period while the oil is not running at its optimum temp so more wear and tear, you will be running "on choke" for longer so will increase bore wash and reduce the life of your oil etc etc.

This post has been edited by Nial: Jan 11, 2013 - 10:56 AM

[yellowchinaman]

so what do you think of extra cooling of the charge cooler Nial? I believe the CC has a separate water pump from the rad water system?

[Special_Edy]

Wouldnt it be cool to solder copper lines to your fenders or hood so the entire sheet metal section would act as a radiator? Obviously the fins of a radiator are desinged to exponentially increase surface area, but a fender could dissipate a hell of a lot of heat without creating any additional drag, and it cooling capacity would increase with speed.

[Nial]

so what do you think of extra cooling of the charge cooler Nial? I believe the CC has a separate water pump from the rad water system?

Yes, the charge cooler system is completely separate from the engine cooling system

I run a second radiator for the charge cooler, located in the inner wing. I made a custom charge cooler aswell which worked extremely well, but due to one of the mounting feet breaking off has been on my garage floor for months now and will probably never go back on. (will be going FMIC I expect)

I also made a small swirl pot to add into the system as the charge cooler I made didnt have a filler. it swirled nicely, but wether it had any benefit remains to be seen (other than allowing me to fill the system with water.)

With the charge cooler heat from the engine is the biggest enemy. Lag the charge cooler with heat resistant felt with a foil backing and that should do the trick.

[yellowchinaman]

so what do you think of extra cooling of the charge cooler Nial? I believe the CC has a separate water pump from the rad water system?

Yes, the charge cooler system is completely separate from the engine cooling system

I run a second radiator for the charge cooler, located in the inner wing. I made a custom charge cooler aswell which worked extremely well, but due to one of the mounting feet breaking off has been on my garage floor for months now and will probably never go back on. (will be going FMIC I expect)

I also made a small swirl pot to add into the system as the charge cooler I made didnt have a filler. it swirled nicely, but wether it had any benefit remains to be seen (other than allowing me to fill the system with water.)

With the charge cooler heat from the engine is the biggest enemy. Lag the charge cooler with heat resistant felt with a foil backing and that should do the trick.

Done the lagging too. Im thinking how about plumb a small rad just before the inlet of the CC and locate it to the front so it can cool the water down a bit more before it reaches the CC. I love the way the car is responding in the winter time so maybe this can help?

[Nial]

The weak link in the charge cooler system is the charge cooler itself, for its size it has a disapointing amount of cooling surface inside.

I always fancied a carbon fibre charge cooler, I am sure with your talents with the stuff you could knock one up.

[yellowchinaman]

The weak link in the charge cooler system is the charge cooler itself, for its size it has a disapointing amount of cooling surface inside.

I always fancied a carbon fibre charge cooler, I am sure with your talents with the stuff you could knock one up.

TBH the housing of the CC is easy to make in carbon.

Special Edy. Nice idea but wont worm for me as I have carbon bonnet and lite weiht fibreglass wings.
But then agajn its easier to install a radiator into the fenders and cold air feed.

[delusionz]

what kind of temps are you guys getting? mine runs in this range



though all my ecu (through stock sensors) ever sees is 180F/82C

[Special_Edy]

Here are three additional ways to improve the cooling efficiency-
Buy a new radiator, you can go for more cores, and they also sell radiators that are triple pass, that is the coolant flows across 3 times before it exits the radiator.
Ive always wanted to file the impeller blades sharp to reduce the drag and cavitation they experience.

Lastly you can fill the bottom 1/2 to 2/3s of the engine block with concrete and epoxy or engine block filler(they make stuff specifically for this). Not only will this stiffen the block, it will reduce the volume of the water jackets which will cause the coolant to circulate faster. The combustion only occurs at the cylinder head and the top couple percent of the engine block, so there is no need to cool the bottom of the cylinder.