3sgte or 5sfte?, Presure2 made a 5sfte then went to a 3sgte... Options

[Pfloyd09]

I've been reading the crap out of these forums, and would like some feedback on which direction to go. Presure2 did a really cool job on putting a turbo on a 5sfe, which is the route I'm inclined to go, but he has now switched to a 3sgte. Is there a reason I wouldn't want to turbo the 5sfe? Presure2, if you read this, why did you ditch the 5sfte in favor of the 3sgte? Should I just look at the 3sgte and forget the 5sfte?

My current car:

1995 Celica GT
5sfe with 190k miles, but runs solid
Auto tranny

My thoughts were to do this in a few phases. First I'd like to just add *some* power to the car to get my feet wet, then move forward with more goodies as time/budget allows. I am a computer guy by day, and now that I'm 40 and my kids are leaving the nest, I want to learn how to really work on and restore cars. The ultimate goal is a 68 Camaro for me, and a 78 Firebird for the wife. Another story altogether...

So with that said, I was thinking I'd go the budget route and do a minimal turbo install at first, leaving as much as possible stock, and shooting for 5-8 psi boost. After that I'd like to buy a 3sgte head, do some nice work on that with the valves and such, then when the budget allows, do a full overhaul on the engine, replacing things like pistons and rods with high performance parts. At that time I would also do a auto to manual tranny swap, and whatever else needed for this setup to run right. I know this will be spendy.

Does this sound like a realistic and feasible approach? Is there a thread I've missed that would be good for phase 1? I know I will need a 3sgte manifold, turbo, and a few other parts, but what would I need to do this on a budget of say $1,000-$1,500? The CT-26 turbo and the manifold can be easily obtained on Ebay for around $200 each. I see threads saying the T3/T4 is the way to go for some installs, but I've read so much I'm getting confused which way to go at ths point.

I'd like to be able to buy parts in phase 1 that could be used and added to in phase 2. Not interested in re-purchasing things as I go along. I hope this is realistic! I have a mechanic that will be backing me up, but most of this is something I plan to do myself, until I get into the overhaul part, which I know is beyond my knowledge, and tools capability right now.

Any help would be appreciated!!

[mgnt232]

listen to the podcasts (in general forum i think) explains a lot in the first few you are missing.
$1,000 is not a whole lot to go off of. IMO its better to buy and do it right the first time. Keep reading through stickies and peoples swap successes and fail stories

[bsamps4]

This is tricky, but I will try to input my .02$...Where should I start...

I hate to speak for others, but I think that Manny (Presure2) would agree that he is very pleased with his 3sgte setup, and that while the 5sfte he built was a lot of fun, that the 3s is much more streetable, and offers plenty of grins, and not to mention power.

I myself have never built a 5sfte, but have toyed withe the idea of creating a 5sgte (3sgte head and 5sgte bottom end), until of course I saw how much expense was involved just in creating a hybrid motor that may or may not be as reliable as an engine that comes from the factory turbocharged, and has more horsepower output potential than the Celica chassis can honestly handle. I have 300hp at the wheels and it can be a struggle at times when you're going quickly to manage the power, and I have bought wider wheels and tires, put on coilover suspension, and have several anti-roll bars.

It also comes down to cost, which I understand is a concern of yours, and quite honestly I'm afraid that a 1,000-1,500$ dollar budget is a start, but likely not enough. I acknowledge that you are make a wise decision and looking before you leap, but combining vehicle upgrades, and making a reliable system is costly and should primarily be done all at the same time. Investing small amounts of money, and then completely changing direction will have netted a loss on the bottom line, while creating something that will last and IS more expensive that can continue to be upgraded puts more of your money in a single minded focus sort of direction. Once you upgrade one part of an engine, you need to upgrade different aspects as well. 1,500 may get you a turbo and manifold, but what about larger injectors, an exhaust, upgraded suspension and brakes for the power, a tuning aparatus, intercooler, induction piping, blow off valve, and the necessary filters, gaskets and fluids?

I also believe that as healthy as your engine is, 190k is a lot of mileage, and running more than 5-8lbs of pressure could be detrimental to the reliability, and could cause more expense in the future.

I personally would go 3sgte just because I have one, and I love it. All of my supporting modifications work in harmony to make one bad street machine that will burn the tires off of most vehicles on the road. I've learned a lot from the experience, and despite the cost, I wouldn't have done anything differently. There are also guys on this board that would recommend the 1mz swap. To me the 1mz swap after it has supporting bolt on's is kind of a maxed out project and leaves little room for improvement without ghastly amounts of expenditure (could you imagine how much it would cost to build, turbocharge, and tune that engine)?, but the 1mz does also offer a respectable amount of reliable power, and to me is pretty neat. How cool would it be to pop the hood of your 4 cylinder car and see a big v6?

So I understand the choice is yours, but I would save that money, and keep saving until you can put in a 3sgte, and put a big smile on your face!

This post has been edited by bsamps4: Aug 1, 2013 - 1:43 PM

[Pfloyd09]

Very good input, thank you! In the end I want a fun ride, but also want to learn about working on cars along the way. I am the typical guy who can change parts out that are bad, but I'd like to stretch the limits of my abilities, and really get into it. Was thinking that doing the 5sfte route might offer that, while providing some good times on the road along the way.

I'll look more at the 3sgte swap, and see about going that route. I was thinking if it came to that I would proabably just buy an MR2, or a 300zx with the cash instead. Too many options!!

Still kinda curious why Manny went with the 3sgte over the 5sfte after spending all that money and time on doing the build. Did it just wear out, or was it for other reasons? That motor seemed pretty cool when he got done from what I saw in the threads about it.


Again, much appreciated!

[rjbibeau]

I had a 5sfte and now have a 3rd gen wrc 3sgte that I am dropping in. 5sfte was decent but internals held me back such as not having forged rods and pistons. parts aren't really availble for the 5sfte as they are for the 3sgte. I was runining 15 pounds and kept popping head gaskets and pistons even though it was professionally tuned every time. piggy back ecu's fight the ecu and is hard to really control without standalone. Play it right and just drop a 3rd gen 3sgte in it. I spent prob aver 3k on my 5sfte setup. rebuilding turbo, piggy back, injectors, wideband, egt and boost gauges and what not. not going to lie I learned a TON of info building this setup my myself.

[digs]

at the point I am (3sfte pre decent tune), looking back I should have gone for a 3sgte swap.

However, doing the 3sfte has meant I have learnt a shedload about turboing and how they work, don't regret it. Just no cheaper than the 3sgte swap really!

[mgnt232]

he talks about it in the podcasts! lol PM manny im sure he will be happy to help

[Pfloyd09]

he talks about it in the podcasts! lol PM manny im sure he will be happy to help

Awesome. Didn't know there were podcasts to listen to until today. I know what I'm doing tonight!!

Appreciate all the responses!

[Syaoran]

Go 3SGTE. 5SFTE is a lot more complicated and if you plan on upgrading "down the road" that means you have a very small starting budget.

You can get away with a very basic 5SFTE setup with OEM turbo kit and a couple other things but eventually you'll regret not doing 3SGTE. It's a lot less user-involved doing the swap.

[PolliS_5S-FE]

So in the end it depends on reliability and plans for the future. Personally I would love to turbo the 5s which I have, fortunately I have the time and more than enough other vehicles to tide me over during the process.

5 - 10 psi, great.

As Syaoran said:

"You can get away with a very basic 5SFTE setup with OEM turbo kit and a couple other things but eventually you'll regret not doing 3SGTE. It's a lot less user-involved doing the swap."

Is the 5s I plan on.

[Smaay]

First off, you have an auto. So 3S-GTE is out of the question unless you use the auto from a caldina or convert your car to 5 speed.

a much easier swap for you will be a V6. you can use your auto trans or the one that came with the V6. you will need a few other parts but it will be much easier and cheaper to go V6 if you are sticking auto

you can turbo the 5S that you have in there but you will have nothing but trouble fighting with the stock ECU. The timing in the stock ECU is way too aggressive and piggybacks just cant get around that. Pressure2 and I have both run into this.

This post has been edited by Smaay: Aug 5, 2013 - 11:32 AM

[Syaoran]

First off, you have an auto. So 3S-GTE is out of the question unless you use the auto from a caldina or convert your car to 5 speed.

a much easier swap for you will be a V6. you can use your auto trans or the one that came with the V6. you will need a few other parts but it will be much easier and cheaper to go V6 if you are sticking auto

you can turbo the 5S that you have in there but you will have nothing but trouble fighting with the stock ECU. The timing in the stock ECU is way too aggressive and piggybacks just cant get around that. Pressure2 and I have both run into this.

I didn't catch that at first... it's an auto

[Pfloyd09]

Thanks for all the feedback!!

As fate would have it, this is no longer a concern for me. I lucked upon a '94 GT hatchback with a blown motor that I'm going to work on instead. Has a 5-speed manual tranny already, so I'm in good shape. Thinking about getting a GT-4 clip, and turning this into a GT-FAUX. Use the hood, front bumper, and gauge set from the GT-4, and anything else that the GT-4 has that the GT doesn't. I can't have a real GT-4, so this will do.

In the short term I'm going to try doing an overhaul on the 5sfe to get it running, then sell the motor to help pay for the GT-4 clip. Mostly wanting to do the rebuild to get the experience, as I've never torn an engine down. Looking forward to it! I still have the '95 GT automatic as my daily driver, so this is just for kicks.

[delusionz]

The information on this site is mostly outdated but good for reference. +T and piggyback should be something of the past

[supershannon77]

From my own experience I would say 3sgte. What ever you choose to do good luck with it.

This post has been edited by supershannon77: Aug 12, 2013 - 7:05 AM