Reducing Understeer Options

[KAOS]

I'm looking for some advice. The engine is almost back in the car, and I then need to finish the chassis upgrades.

I have a ST front sway bar to install and my friend seems to think that if I remove the sway bar altogether and NOT install the ST bar, that will significantly remove any understeer.

<- I gave him one of these.

Doesn't make much sense to me to completely remove it; the new REAR sway bar is installed and set to stiff. But I can't see this car having so much HP that understeer would be affected at all...

Squash this inner turmoil for me.

... and GO!

[JoshuaM]

Lots of threads on this.... somewhere, lol

Rear stiffening = less understeer from everything I've been told.

Make sure you have decent tyres before you spend money on bracing though.

[playr158]

I disconnected my frontsway bar in my MKIV Jetta Turbo....its pretty common in that group.

Good poly bushings in the control arms, quality tires, a bit of negative camber should definitely help

[qatar11]

I'm looking for some advice. The engine is almost back in the car, and I then need to finish the chassis upgrades.

I have a ST front sway bar to install and my friend seems to think that if I remove the sway bar altogether and NOT install the ST bar, that will significantly remove any understeer.

<- I gave him one of these.

Doesn't make much sense to me to completely remove it; the new REAR sway bar is installed and set to stiff. But I can't see this car having so much HP that understeer would be affected at all...

Squash this inner turmoil for me.

... and GO!

I'm curious... under what conditions are you experiencing understeer?

This post has been edited by qatar11: Oct 22, 2013 - 2:38 PM

[Box]

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/tec...e.jsp?techid=58

[delusionz]

to reduce understeer do some or any of these upgrades



FRONT: 3pt strut brace, high perf tyres, -1deg neg camber, lowering

REAR: rear swaybar, cheap tyres, raise rear, neutral 0 camber

[RabidTRD]

Want less under steer? Raise the rear! By giving the car a slight but of "rake" you effectively raise the center of gravity, causing the rear to come around instead of the front. You also want a stiffer sway bar in the rear with stiffer end links (I recommend MOOG because of how thick they are) and urethane bushing on the rear bar. A bit of camber and you can actually oversteer in a Celica.

[BonzaiCelica]

I heard removing front sway bar makes hard braking unstable. Get suoerstrut suspension

[delusionz]

or fix your driving. if your car cant turn? pull the e-brake.

fix your driving line so youve already made some of the turn before accelerating, then you can create a weight transfer

[KAOS]

Sorry, I think the point of this topic wasn't clearly communicated.

I wanted to tell my buddy that he was out of his mind.

(a) not RACECAR
(b) never will be driven to the extremes that I would ever experience oversteer/understeer
© the suspension goodies were purchased all at the same time with the twos r us end links, and adjustable Tokicos at a great price. (so I'd like to install them all anyways, iiregardless of the usage they'll receive)
(d) I would maybe AutoX the car later in life

Basically, I wanted the suspension guru's to give me some technical facts that I could take to him and say; I'm putting the front sway bar on, I will never see understeer on this car, etc etc etc.

I've pretty much just answered my own request, but I like to hear more information about reducing understeer anyways, so keep it going! There have been some good pointers so far.

This post has been edited by KAOS: Oct 22, 2013 - 4:54 PM

[delusionz]

oh yeah, i didnt properly read the first post.

Yes, install both, set front to normal, set rear to stiff, or if in doubt... install both on the middle setting

[Box]

The link I posted /thread

[mkernz22]

Our cars hardly understeer at all... even when mine was stock it would barely understeer. You also need to know how to corner properly; like when to brake, when to coast, when to get on the gas, and also you need to have a nice line through a corner. Obviously, if you cut the wheel sharp and stomp on the gas, you'll get a bunch of understeer lmao

With my setup;
front 3pt strut bar
rear 2pt strut bar
interior harness bar
coilovers all around
about -1.7 to -1.9 camber in the front
about -3 to -3.5 of camber in the rear (didn't plan for that to happen, just did when I installed my coilovers)
bridgestone potenza re-760 sport tires

I don't get any understeer at all. No oversteer either, but I can make the rear end kick a little bit lol

And to answer your question, if you install the front ST sway bar, it will help with the understeer.
But like you said, NOTRACECAR, so you shouldn't even be worried haha

[qatar11]

Also, as a general rule; passenger cars are designed to understeer. It's a safer, "loss of car control" scenario than say... some snappy oversteer.

about -3 to -3.5 of camber in the rear (didn't plan for that to happen, just did when I installed my coilovers)

Holy crazy tire wear, Batman!

[RabidTRD]

Camber doesn't wear tires down. Alignment and toe issues is what kills tires.

[Tigawoods]

Camber doesn't wear tires down. Alignment and toe issues is what kills tires.

sorta right/wrong. Technically this is normal wear just localized on the inside tread area


This post has been edited by Tigawoods: Oct 23, 2013 - 9:44 AM

[mkernz22]

Also, as a general rule; passenger cars are designed to understeer. It's a safer, "loss of car control" scenario than say... some snappy oversteer.

about -3 to -3.5 of camber in the rear (didn't plan for that to happen, just did when I installed my coilovers)

Holy crazy tire wear, Batman!

Well I've only had them on for the spring-fall so there really isn't too much odd wear.
It really helps with cornering though because when you turn to either side the tire will press down more evenly on pavement and will become closer to 0 degrees of camber, which makes a better contact to the ground. Where as if you're around 0 to -1 degree of camber, depending on the corner, the wheel might start to positive camber, which could be bad because you run the possibility of losing contact on the inside of the tire.

I've only read up on the whole camber thing a little bit so that's what I took from it so far, hoping to read up more in the near future, but if I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me on it.

[qatar11]

Camber doesn't wear tires down. Alignment and toe issues is what kills tires.

sorta right/wrong. Technically this is normal wear just localized on the inside tread area

Sorry RabidTRD, I cannot agree with this. As a general rule, there is very little downside to dialing in lots of negative camber... other than balancing out tire wear. All alignment decisions will effect the wear of a tire.

[czwalga]

If your front tires arent sliding you arent understeering. If your rear tires aren't sliding you arent oversteering. You just need to turn the wheel and take better lines.

[qatar11]

If your front tires arent sliding you arent understeering. If your rear tires aren't sliding you arent oversteering. You just need to turn the wheel and take better lines.

Hitting the wall at speed head on = understeer
Hitting the wall at speed ass end first = oversteer