Doesn't always start the first try, cranks a long time, can you hear the fuel pump prime when you first hit the key? Options

[VavAlephVav]

Ever since I've had the Celica I have thought that when I hit the key to start it that it takes several seconds of cranking before I get ignition.
lately it's even gotten as bad as not starting on the first try, sometimes not on the second try until it finally starts the third time. but It doesn't always do it, sometimes it starts right up.
I try not to immediately hit the key to start but I like to turn it to ON for a few seconds for the fuel pump to prime before I turn the key to on. But when I do I cannot hear the fuel pump, on most every other
car I've had, chevy, jeep, dodge, mazda, I have always been able to hear the fuel pump make a little wirrrr sound when you first hit the key. especially when I know the pump is right under the back seat not more than 2 feet away from me I figure I should be able to hear it, but I dont'.
I do have a brand new fuel filter, and I run Top Tier gasoline. First, can you guys Hear your fuel pump when you start it up? or is it normal to not hear it?
Do you think this is a fuel pump problem or something else? I do need to take the throttle body off and clean the Idle Air Control and calibrate the TPS. but idk if that effects starting much. maybe its just crap in the fuel pump screen, but I bet it's the 20 year old stock pump and a Denso reman is only $80 on RockAuto and as long as it's so easy to get to I'll replace it anyway.
I'd rather be proactive about something like a fuel pump then have to get stuck somewhere because of it.
I have a 5sfe from a 98+ camry and I don't think it has a cold start injector.

[Smaay]

nope no cold start injector on the 5S-FE.

sometime I can hear the pump and sometimes I cant. the design of the circuit opening relay is when you turn the key to the on position it sends power to the fuel pump relay, but the signal FC from the ECU is what activated the relay to send power to the fuel pump.

does this make sense? put a meter on the the COR and check voltages

[Bitter]

fuel pump is easy to change as long as all the little screws and bolts aren't rusted really bad.

[thaflizo]

I'm having a simular problem with my 94 celica gt. I was leaning towards the fuel pump being the issue so I found and tried a $12 fuel pump from carparts.com. I was able to change it out in less than an hour with no experiance with fuel pumps. It did not fix my issue but a $12 fuel pump was a cheap enough to give it a shot.

http://www.carparts.com/details/Toyota/Cel...2L/L314501.html

[VavAlephVav]

I've seen a Denso reman for $80 on rock auto, id rather not get stuck because of a really cheap fuel pump
But thanks for validating my suspicion that the fuel pump is not to blame. I'm taking Dynamics in the summer and so I really haven't had time to read more about troubleshooting the EFI.
I have noticed it only does it when the motor is cold, and once its been warmed up I can start it right up.
And I read somewhere that the later model 5sfe doesn't use a cold start injector, which I think is what smay is talking about, but I need to get a better understanding of what is happening when it starts when cold.
Hopefully ill get some more time to figure it out before it completely breaks on me. I do have a factory Toyota PDF for the 5sfe

[VavAlephVav]

here's the info from the flow chart under "Difficult to Start or No Start (cranks OK)"

Check diagnosis system --> diagnostic codes
|
normal
|
does engine start with accelerator depressed? --> ISC system 1) ISC valve 2) wiring connection
|
no
|
Check for vacuum leaks in air intake line --> 1. oil filler cap 2. oil dipstick 3. hose connections 4. pcv hose 5. EGR system - egr valve stays open
|
OK
|
Check ignition spark --> 1. plug wires 2. distributor 3. ignition coil 4. igniter
|
OK
|
Check spark plugs no --> compression / valve clearance
| BAD(wet plugs) --> 1. injectors shorted or leaking 2. cold start injector leakage 3. injector wiring - shorted 4. cold start injector time switch
OK
|
Check fuel supply to injector 1. fuel tank 2. pressure in fuel hose at filter Bad --> 1. fuel line 2. fuses 3. fuel pump 4. fuel pressure regulator
|
OK
|
Check ignition timing Bad --> adjust timing
|
OK
|
check EFI electronic circuit using volt meter --> 1. wiring connection 2. power to ecu 3. vacuum sensor 4. water temp sensor 5. air temp sensor 6. injection signal circuit









this seems to be for the old 5sfe as it mentions the cold start injector, i should find a manual for a 98+ camry, though i bet it's not too much different.
I know my plugs, wires, cap and rotor are new but i might check if the plugs are still tight. i think going down the list i should inspect vacuum leaks and the EGR circuit.
but also when i replaced the pcv it was kindov a beatch to squeeze it in the right place and it probably isnt air-tight. so ill start by looking at those. I should stop at an autozone and have them check the codes for me too.

[VavAlephVav]

this morning mine decided to not start at all, which was a perfect opportunity to troubleshoot the problem. normally it starts after 2 or three tries and you can't investigate it until it actually breaks right?
first the rubber fuel hose at the top of the fuel filter connection, is downstream of the filter, and had good pressure on it. So the fuel pump and filter are good.
Then I thought to check for spark and pull the plugs to check them, but I noticed the PCV valve was loose and the rubber grommet had slipped down into the valve cover and wasn't sealed much at all. so I dug out the grommet with some needle nose, popped it back into place with the valve in, and it started right up.
my pcv valve and grommet are mangled and the little hose doesn't fit quite right.