fires up but will not stay running, FIXED! now I have to watch Eddy dance around in his Minecraft Sui Options

[VavAlephVav]

I have a 94 Celica GT with the 2.2L 5sfe.
for a couple of months I have been nursing a bad head-gasket, I'm having a rebuilt motor installed in September.

the head gasket leaks exhaust into the coolant system and blows coolant back out the overflow tube, for a long time this has been the only leak and lately I drive real cool, shifting at 2200 and setting the cruise control at 55 and it does just fine without overheating or loosing much coolant. a couple of months back I flushed the coolant system just to see how dirty it was, and it wasn't very dirty at all yet after I flushed it the headgasket leak got worse from this I decided it may have been stop-leaked before I bought it (just last 0ctober) and therefore it is a better idea to get a whole new motor instead of doing a headgasket on this one. I have another guy doing a full rebuild for me it just isn't going to happen until September.

for the most part it has still run just fine and been quite dependable. except that the idle is often up around 1500-1800, until you goose the throttle a bit and it will come down to 800 or so like it ought to. and lately if I top off the radiator it doesn't want to start on the first try in the morning (most likely coolant leaking into the cylinder). but after it warms up it runs fine, sometimes it might die when its cold but always fires right back up.
then, I started messing with the throttle body to try and fix the idle speed problem. I took the throttle body off, and cleaned the Idle speed control valve, the coil ohms out like it should, and the valve turns freely. and I calibrated the TPS with an ohmmeter and feeler gauge as it shows in the 5sfe manual I have. but I think I set the closed position of the throttle plate too low, I don't have an angle gauge to measure the 6 degrees position from all the way closed, I noticed that the screw was out so far that the throttle opener diaphragm would only move the throttle about 1/8" when it was all the way out. but it ran fine for several weeks it just that when it was idling you could hardly hear it running.

but for weeks that worked fine and I was too busy to take it back apart and mess with it, but once in a while when it was cold first thing in the morning it might die the first couple of times. and the idle was still too high, and it was best to Let it idle high because as soon as I goose the throttle and bring it back down to idle speed it might die. but it would always fire right back up with no problem. but it was slowly getting worse. and it started giving me CEL codes, 12 - distributor, ignition coil, starter circuit. 14 - Distributor coil, igniter. and 21 - O2 sensor.

So this week summer class ended and ive got three weeks off and I started to mess with it... I went to pick-n-pull and got an igniter, O2 sensor and a fairly new looking ignition coil from a Camry 5sfe. at first I had the sense to change things one at a time and tried the igniter and it still wanted to die the first couple of times when cold, but it would start right back up. then I tried the O2 sensor, and mine has had the plug rigged this whole time and was held together by black tape so I took that apart to redo the whole wiring connection( hopefully improving it) installing the plug connectors I got from the salvage yard. But at this point I also sprayed intake cleaner down the throttle body (B-12 chemtool).

after this part it didn't want to start at all, it will crank and fire up, but shuts right back off. I had though at first I just needed to burn off the throttle cleaner but after starting it several times it just won't run anymore. and It fires up almost instantly but then seems to cut out as if something is cutting it off. and if I hit the key again it will not fire, but if I turn the key to OFF and then try again it will at least fire up for a moment and then cut off again. after trying dozens of times and running the battery down and jump starting it I have got it to fire up and run 3 times and I revved it and seemed like it was going to run and as soon as I let off the throttle it dies, and does not want to start back up.

today I took the dizzy off and swapped in the ignition coil I picked up, the ohm readings from the dist connections were within spec( G- G+ 200 ish ohms, Ne- Ne+ 440 ohms) but my ignition coil was the original 20 year old one and had a big split in the plastic and instead of reading .5 or so ohms it fluctuated wildly from 10, to 5 to 15 ohms before finally settling down to something close to 3 or 4 ohms so I replaced the coil thinking for sure I'd found the problem. I set the crank to 0 degrees and lined up the tabs on the dizzy and slipped it in. and it still does the same thing, after trying several times I got it to fire up and as long as I kept it reved up it was ok, and as soon as I let off the throttle it died and will not fire right back up. again, if I hit the key it fires but cuts off immediately, and if I just hit the key again it cranks but wont catch, if I turn the key to OFF and then try again it fires up and cuts off. about every 6 tries it will start and as long as I keep it revved up it will run.

so what do you think? what should I look at next? really the whole thing got worse as soon as I started dicking with the O2 sensor connection. how picky is that thing? I mean the guy I bought it from had it just twisted together and held with black tape this whole 10 months ive had it. or did I just spray too much throttle cleaner down it and need to burn it off?

thanks for your help

This post has been edited by VavAlephVav: Aug 19, 2014 - 7:12 AM

[Box]

The throttle cleaner will eventually evaporate, plus it wouldn't have made it too far with the engine off. As many times as you've started it, albeit briefly, I doubt there's any remaining. If you can keep the throttle open and it'll run that tells me you're getting fuel and spark at least. Could be an issue of air, or the cylinders are getting flooded with coolant.

[toyota123]

I had a similar problem with my wife's corolla. The only difference was her head gasket was not bad. It turned out to be the distributor was bad I had changed a couple of things here and there but hadn't accumulated the mechanical experience I have now. I tried to change a few parts on the side of the road and nothing worked. After $575 to have the car towed 1.2 miles and the distributor replaced and the timing set is was back to running like a dream.

I was able to make it about 10 miles down the road feathering the gas while holding the brake at Red lights but after that it decided it wasn't having it anymore

[VavAlephVav]

at this point theres not much coolant in it , or at least not enough for it to be coming into the cylinder. it made a distinctive sound when it was burning off the anti-freeze. and under the troubleshooting section for "sometimes stalls" the MAP sensor also comes up. but the reason I used the B-12 in the first place was the intake was super cruddy and I had taken the throttle body off and cleaned it just 6 weeks ago and it was real nasty, stunk like piss too.
I checked the gap on the distributor with a feeler, and they weren't too wide, infact one side seemed a little small and the ohm readings were within spec. but it very well may be the dizzy itself. I think I'm going to go back through the salvage yard and pick up a whole distributor and a map sensor.

This post has been edited by VavAlephVav: Jul 27, 2014 - 10:30 AM

[Special_Edy]

Have you checked compression, all your compression is leaking into the water jacket or the neighboring cylinders.

The calatytic converter is probably destroyed and clogged solid. The O2 sensor is likely destroyed. The piston rings are likely destroyed. The cylinders are pitted and rusty by now. The exhaust valves may be destroyed. The cylinder head is likely cracked or warped.

Fix the headgasket first. You are causing enourmous damage by driving it around with a leaking head gasket. You may as well drive it without oil. You are a fool if you waste another cent on the engine without first fixing the headgasket.

[VavAlephVav]

Oh, I already decided that this motor was probably stopleaked before I got it. and with the chunk they cut out of the transmission to make it fit and the fact that I really have no idea what year camry it came out of I decided to get a whole new motor.
in fact I'm going to have Smaay do a full rebuild on one he's got sitting in the garage for me. but I wont have the money till September. so im nursing this one along for now. and it was running just fine till I messed with it so I don't think it's completely dead just yet.
I did pull the plugs and they are not soaked with coolant, and I cleaned them up. It only acts like there's coolant in the cylinder when I top off the radiator as long as I leave it "not quite full" it starts right up.

I found a nice looking denso reman dizzy that surely has less than the 180k miles that the camry I got it from had on it. and a real nice looking Toyota coil and a couple map sensors to try.
and I got another O2 sensor the other day and it didn't seem to make a difference. but my sensor plug was rigged with twisted wires and black tape this whole time. I wonder if maybe I didn't redo the connection good enough. I got some male/female o2 plugs to put on it and swung by my brothers to pick up my soldering iron and make good connections.


im going to set up this new dizzy and see what happens. the code im getting now is 14 - no IGF signal - igniter and ignition coil or circuit


This post has been edited by VavAlephVav: Jul 27, 2014 - 2:42 PM

[VavAlephVav]

Dizzy did it. fired right up. even though the ohm readings on the old one were within spec I think I might of had something to do with the shaft and the air gap not being right.

the other strange thing, when I was trying to put the old one back in last night, you know it has a notch on the coupler and you line it up with the groove on the dizzy shaft. well it would NOT fit in that way, I tried for an Hour and it would not slip in all the way. I finally turned it around 180(with the marks not matching) and it slipped right in. freakn weird.

I've been so pissed the last couple of nights because I couldn't even get it to run to pull it in the garage and redo the tint on my door windows. and ive wasted so much gas going back and forth to the salvage yard looking for parts. ...now I need to go get a bright pink paint pen so I can mark this other dizzy and take it back to them and say it didn't work Muhahahaha

I do appreciate you guys's help though, even when Eddy chastises me like puppy that just **** on the carpet

[Box]

At least it kinda runs again.

[VavAlephVav]

ya the idle is still weird, but it doesn't die at all. and for three semesters in a row the Celi waits until school is out and Then dies, and it dies in my freakin driveway.
I <3 this car. even when **** breaks it's super.

This post has been edited by VavAlephVav: Jul 27, 2014 - 8:11 PM

[Box]

They're good cars, just happen to move the wrong wheels.

[toyota123]

Glad could help on the dizzy front... Sounded all to familiar. Be glad it doesn't break on the way home from school. Roadside work is nessesary rarely is it even fun,

[VavAlephVav]

just to update, when I went to rebuild the distributor the connector for the N-,N+,G-,G+ plug fell apart on me and took me a couple days to figure out. swiped a couple good ones from some salvage Camry's and rebuilt that plug and the 2-pin one on the other side so the terminals are good and the locks work.
Good ignition coil, and even replaced the little condenser inside the distributor that tested bad. then realized I had a leaky cell in the battery, and with a good battery got it to fire up and run hopefully long enough for the stop-leak to work its way through there and setup.
/crossfingers

I really think the only problem left is low compression from the head gasket.

[VavAlephVav]

Today when I got home my brand new dizzy was in a box on the steps and the used ECU I bought from YFN16 was in the mailbox.

I slipped in the Distributor and nothing but Crank Crank.
So I took out the computer and installed the one I got, half expecting it to still not fire up. Fella was nice enough to include the mounting brackets and the circuit opening relay. which turned out to be real cool because I busted my circuit opening relay when I unplugged it, and I noticed that my front mounting bracket was sharply bent out of shape. which tells me its been removed before(by some retard).
I plugged everything back up and fastened it down. then hesitated for a few minutes before I could bring myself to hit the key and be disappointed BUT VROOM VROOM it fired right up, didn't stall or hesitate at all.
I let it idle a while to heat up that barsleaks I put in there. don't have a timing light so I just turned the dizzy down until the idle sat at about 1000. Ill go to autozone and use theirs in the parking lot tomorrow.

went back inside and opened the old ecu and almost didn't see it, but if you look real close you can see the black crud from this cap that **** itself and one of those little switches in front of it is all melted.




also these chips look like the shiny protective coating has melted away




Now I will do the Dance Of Joy!!